Author Topic: Stance  (Read 194 times)

munch

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Stance
« on: May 01, 2018, 12:24:28 PM »
Years ago when I got my car, it sat lower in the front and looked good.  However it did not handle well.  It has a Kungel IFS, so I contacted them for advice.  After looking at pictures Mr. Kungel determined that the previous owner  had adjusted the coil overs to drop the front as much as possible, and by doing so created a situation where the R arms were angled upward a great deal or smiling as Mr. Kungle put it.  He had me adjust them the where the A arms were level or maybe frowning a little.  He said that was the better setup for handling and it did help. 
Know I want to get the front end back down without disrupting the handling.  How would I go about that?  New springs? New shocks?
Any advice is appreciated.

Rattiac

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Re: Stance
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2018, 02:15:21 PM »
I'd probably leave it as is. Looks low enough.
 8)
In my experience I've done both lowriders and way big 4x4's having extremes to get the look but always lost highway driveability.
A happy medium seems best. That's why I kept my Pontiac stock height.

Hell. The other day I went to change lanes and almost ran over a "too low" rat rod I couldn't see in my blind spot.

themoose

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Re: Stance
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2018, 04:39:49 PM »
Its all about the caster. I have a kugel front suspension system in my 32 and I knew I wanted the front to ride lower than the rear so when I set the front end up for welding into the car I set the frame at the angle I wanted to achieve the correct stance then set the caster to 3.5 degrees positive on the front crossbeam of the Kugel axle and welded it in. When the car was done I set the camber and tow to speck and it handles like a dream in fact it handles better than my daily driver. The more positive caster the better it will track in a straight line which is what I wanted because I'm not going to race on any road courses in the near future :D .If your lucky and you have enough adjustment by swapping the shims in the upper control arms you might get some improvement otherwise you will need to either modify the control arms of reinstall the front cross-member which probably won't be practical.
see att.


« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 04:55:11 PM by themoose »
Too soon we get old too late we get smart. One out of two aint bad 8)

sixball

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Re: Stance
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2018, 05:54:01 PM »
Anything you do with springs will chance to A arm geometry  again. Dropped spindles or mounting the whole front end higher on the chassis are the ways I see to get it lower. I'm trying to get my roadster to sit where it looks good to me using a beam axle without a ridiculous drop. Mad Mike will have a solution.
The probability of life originating from accident is comparable to the probability of the unabridged dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing shop.  Edwin Conklin

munch

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Re: Stance
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 07:13:48 PM »
Thanks guys.  I certainly don't want to re-mount the IFS and like the dropped spindle solution but am told by Kungel that they are already dropped.  I don't want to mess up the handling, but would like to give it a little rake.

madmike3434

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Re: Stance
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2018, 07:18:36 PM »
SIXBALL you called ????

LMAO, ya its hard to get an axle car lower in the front, but it is possible. On an early chevy 26--36 you want to go no lower than 3---3 1/2 " drop on the axle.  Other treatments are to have the front springs de-arched to almost straight.  While your at it also have the spring eyes reversed, all this ads up to lower stance.   Now you have to pick the perfect tire in height so it looks perfect in the front wheel well opening.

I made my coupe with 4 1/2" maxi drop axle way to low, was hard to steer.

A KUNGLE FRONT END............wow serious spelling error...its KUGEL .  No problem we know who you meant.  The KUGEL in my 35 coupe the coils are wound down to the bottom for lowness.  My kugel 1996 type ,  has the EIBACH front coils that are tighter on the bottom and looser at the top.  More of a sports type suspension.  Car steers easy with 15" banjo lecarra wheel and no power assist.  As you can see its IN-DA-WEEDS.   Again trick is to get the right height tire to fill the wheel opening.  Maximum back spacing on 15" wheel is 4" otherwise tie rod ends rub the rim.. Tire size for my coupe is 185--60--15.

 My phaeton uses 155-80-15 I believe.  Tire is a kumho ?  The suspension on this is original jaguar XKE on which the kugel is based.  But stock xke uses a torsion bar to adjust ride height, a lot more screwing around to adjust it than coil shock system.

 A 32 Chevrolet front fender has a larger open design and getting the right tire size is critical to getting the stance look right.  But be careful as the coil shocks have as much as 3" of collapse travel on full rebound.  You can make a mess of the fender underneath.

A prior poster on this thread mentioned about caster camber, listen to him he is making sense.  Sorry cannot see who it is.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 07:29:31 PM by madmike3434 »

madmike3434

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Re: Stance
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2018, 07:47:32 PM »
Years ago when I got my car, it sat lower in the front and looked good.  However it did not handle well.  It has a Kungel IFS, so I contacted them for advice.  After looking at pictures Mr. Kungel determined that the previous owner  had adjusted the coil overs to drop the front as much as possible, and by doing so created a situation where the R arms were angled upward a great deal or smiling as Mr. Kungle put it.  He had me adjust them the where the A arms were level or maybe frowning a little.  He said that was the better setup for handling and it did help. 
Know I want to get the front end back down without disrupting the handling.  How would I go about that?  New springs? New shocks?
Any advice is appreciated.

MUNCH....looking at the car from the side your almost there, just need to close the top of tire to fender gap.  Unwind the coil shock all the way, now take another look at it from the side.  How much gap is there, too close, back underneath and wind the adjuster on the coil 2-3 turns.  Back up and eyeball it or maybe measure bumper bolt center to ground and see what has changed  ??  Can you go to a slightly taller tire than what you have , to close the visual gap without compromising the tire fender clearance. ?

Its tricky doing this and requires patience to adjust it to where you want it , without compromising tire fender clearance.

Here is some added info for you...........
if the steering rack ever wears out..............its from a DODGE OMNI
 the ball joints are from a Chevrolet vega
No idea on the tie rod ends, never asked

mike lynch

sixball

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Re: Stance
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2018, 12:22:32 AM »
Yes I called. :) I knew your cars have a nice stance and independent suspension. Moose's fenders make it a bit tougher to the look right because they're designed for much larger tire/wheel and they have to be just right. Fenders like yours are a little more forgiving. My roadster won't have fenders so really somewhere between stock and too low will work. It can't be too low for my dirt road.
The probability of life originating from accident is comparable to the probability of the unabridged dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing shop.  Edwin Conklin

munch

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Re: Stance
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2018, 11:19:15 AM »
As always, thanks for the info guys.  Food for thought...

PS Sorry for the spelling, my bad...

madmike3434

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Re: Stance
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2018, 03:51:11 PM »
you will have to do 12 holy chevies as penance. 

let us know what the end result is when you finally get it sorted.

"happiness is in da weeds and on the ground"

mike

 


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