Rusty Bowtie
General Category => General Discussion - Intros => Topic started by: sammons on April 18, 2014, 02:31:08 PM
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I looked around and did not see any threads on this subject. I would like to know what others have tried, what materials were used, the application they used, and how well it worked/ lasted for them. We all know there are several ways of doing things that often stray from the original application instructions. Often I try things out of the ordinary due to availability and or price.
Also maybe what you have tried to keep them annoying wind noises out.
If this has already been discussed, please reefer me to it, and delete or move to the appropriate place.
I was just posting with 62131 about what I use for undercoating and sound control. I have been using Total Coat "Sound Control" for close to 8 years now. I was amazed with the sound deadening quality of this product and it's ease of application. I used to use 3M Rubberized Undercoat in the rattle can. I thought it was a good undercoat, but did't do that much as far as deadening.
I spray the underside and the interior surfaces. Then I generally insulate the interior with a foil/bubble/foil that can be purchased at most building supply stores. I use 3M General Spray Adhesive and foil tape at all seams. I like to put the insulation on all the interior surfaces Including the underside of the dash (for cars that have upper dash areas.
Please share what you used and how you liked it, thanks. Sammons
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Sammons,
I to used the building supply stuff for sound deadening. It is called Peel & Stick and it is from Lowes. Cheap enough for multiple layers and does a good job.
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Munch, my freind is going to try that. My problem is I'm 125 miles from Lowes/ Home depot. I've heard good results from that, just haven't tried it yet.
I haven't used this particular material before. Foil/4 layers foam/white vinyl. But a friend give it to me last week, it's free so I will be using it.
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Sammons,
Great subject. I'm almost at the point I'll have to be thinking about this. I'll watch and see which way I decide to go.
Tom
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I no there are many products out there, lizard skin and the like. I've heard of people brushing on that white roofing sealer etc. Many types of sound deadners Dynamat, Hush Mat name brand expensive stuff. I prefer the more affordable alternatives that people have tried such as peel & seal, foil/bubble and that roofing rubber membrane stuff.
Just curious as to what combinations you fellas have tried.
Another question, do you guys think that I would run into any trouble with drilling a few small holes in my rollbar/cage and filling the void with expanding foam? The reason I ask is my previous build, I built a rollbar for it, (uni-body car) and when I ran across a patch of gravel etc., the sound would travel up the bar. I would like to stop this, a friends idea. I know I have cut into some later drive shafts that were filled with foam.
Years ago a buddy of mine went through his '70 chevy pick up, new rockers, cab corners etc. He filled them with foam, I told him I wouldn't because of the extreme temp changes here in Kansas. Warm interior temp and cold outside temp creates moisture. It all rusted up in about 5 years. I don't think this would be an issue with it all being on the interior.
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Sammon
Glad you started this subject, When I built my 38 I used both peel & seal and the fabric with the foil on the back for the fire wall under the dash. There was a lot of negative comments on using peel & seal about it smelling like tar when it got hot, would not stick to a painted substrate.
There was positive things also, I chose to use it and search the internet for the best price and bought it thru Amazon
It's been in the car three years now with no problems. I will be using it in my 32 also. The conversation you and I was having was about the bottom of the floor pan. The guy I purchased the car from had put in a new pan but didn't do anything to protect it and the car set outside for three years. The pan cleaned up very nice, I coated it with a product from Loctite called Extend its a rust converter. I called and spoke with a person at Total Coat yesterday to see it was compatible and they said no problem.
My concern is Total Coat will cover gaps because the supports are stitched welded. They also said it would stick to a seam sealer, it can also be painted.
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Years ago a buddy of mine went through his '70 chevy pick up, new rockers, cab corners etc. He filled them with foam, I told him I wouldn't because of the extreme temp changes here in Kansas. Warm interior temp and cold outside temp creates moisture. It all rusted up in about 5 years. I don't think this would be an issue with it all being on the interior.
Most of the new cars use foam to fill voids and add strength...you need to use "closed molecule" foam designed for automotive applications. From what I read closed molecule foam doesn't absorb moisture but the home foam insulation does causing metal panel rot.
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Ed, I'm glad you pointed that out. The guy I spoke of used house foam, It was sickening to see that all rusted out 5 yrs later. I would like to caution anyone who may fill body panel, even with closed cell foam. New cars are coated with an anti-corrosion coating prior to the foam being applied. I always thought of it like a cold glass of beer on a hot day, glass just sweating.
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On the underside of the car I usually use a brush on rust inhibitator about a pint will do the whole car underneath but you can use it inside also, it goes on as a white paste and turns black once dried. Then I use a body seam check all around the seams usually found at a paint supply store, after that I will use the standard automotive black spray undercoating found in spray cans. I have had great results with no rust bleed through later on.
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On the underside of the car I usually use a brush on rust inhibitator about a pint will do the whole car underneath but you can use it inside also, it goes on as a white paste and turns black once dried. Then I use a body seam check all around the seams usually found at a paint supply store, after that I will use the standard automotive black spray undercoating found in spray cans. I have had great results with no rust bleed through later on.
Years ago I bought a 1984 Chevy fleetside, the drivers quarter panel had about 60% of it rusted, the paint was gone and it was pitted and surface rusted just looked terrible. I used a hand held wire brush to remove the loose scale and applied three coats (spray can) of 3M rust encapsulater (per instructions) then applied a light coat of body filler, sanded, primed and applied a single stage paint to the entire truck. I saw the truck 10 or 12 years later and the quarter panel still looked the same as it was painted - never rusted through.
The trick is to make sure you seal both side of any body work..the moisture may not get through the surface paint...but gets in from the back.
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Living here in the high desert our cars are not exposed to a lot of salt from the roads so we get careless. I was under my '53 pickup last week changing front springs and shocks and was horrified at the rust from last years trip to Bonneville. I spent quite a bit of time at the car wash cleaning it, evidently not enough. I'm going to have to get under there and do something. That salt is always damp or even wet and it gets everywhere and into all the cracks and crevasses. I am following this with interest. Thanks!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HneuPNUvO6A/Ug7UxOpK1QI/AAAAAAAAGaw/_EuvdZHv5YY/s400/100_1278.JPG)
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As you are finding out, salt loves moisture! That's why we keep rice kernels in the salt shakers.
Hopefully you can get some sort of water resistant coating on your metal before the salt does it's insidious work.
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Sixball, I always wondered about that. You see the same cars year after year show up there, I just thought maybe it was just a dry salt (like maybe dust/sand). Had an old guy that use to work in the Kansas salt mines say that when they retired a vehicle from the mine, return it to the surface, you could literally watch it rust within hours.
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I met a really cool old guy who ran a salt operation near Fallon, Nevada. This was in the early '70s before I became a really cool old guy. I was at a tractor place buying parts from my JD crawler. He said he owned the same model that he had bought new in the '50s and offered to show it to me. My wife and I spent the rest of the day at his place which was a virtual "what salt will do to stuff"museum. His JD crawler was in perfect working order with all ram tubes clean and shiny with grease oozing from all lube points. There was not a speck of green or yellow paint anywhere and much of the sheet metal was going away. It appeared to be sculpted from rust but ran like new. I should have learned a lesson there. ::)
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Another interesting point about salt is that it is used to turn guns blue! Can't remember the exact temp but with the correct ratio of salt/water and temperature a piece of polished steel in the hot bluing salts for about 15 minutes produces a nice blue finish (concentrated rust) that can resist further rust with just an few drops of oil.
Another story I heard was of the old timers urinating on the long gun barrels to start the rusting process...once the rust was established..just a little oil to maintain the finish.
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For the "browning" process used on muzzle loaders each gunsmith had their own formula but the result was controlled rust. That is my plan for the '53...control the rust ;D If I can seal the metal and deaden the sound at the same time that's good. 8)
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Just don't "pee" on it!!!!! Man my nose still hurts. Lol!!
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I'm revisiting this topic as I'm still trying to decide what to put on my floor before the carpeting goes in this winter. I saw on a show that they suggested using duct work insulation. They said it was comparable to Dynamat but a lot less cost. Summit Racing has a few brands, Thermo-Tec, Boom Mat, Vintage Air Dyna-Liner and their own Summit brand. Let me know if you've used any of these and how you liked them.
Tom
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Tom, here's what I used. Relatively cheap, seems to work good, no odor. It's been in my car for over a year, I haven't put in carpets or upholstery yet and like I said no odor. I used it on the floor and all other panels (inside doors, trunk, roof, cowl) with no failures. The only extra step I did, was I sprayed contact cement on the roof and vertical panels just to give me piece of mind. Also, I plan on using jute padding under the carpet.
Anyway, I don't know how well the expensive stuff works, but I like this stuff just fine.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_154017-81326-PS625_0__?productId=1018733&Ntt=
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Chopper, that brand seems to come up a lot and with good reviews. So far I'm leaning that way. Thanks
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Tom, here's what I used. Relatively cheap, seems to work good, no odor. It's been in my car for over a year, I haven't put in carpets or upholstery yet and like I said no odor. I used it on the floor and all other panels (inside doors, trunk, roof, cowl) with no failures. The only extra step I did, was I sprayed contact cement on the roof and vertical panels just to give me piece of mind. Also, I plan on using jute padding under the carpet.
Anyway, I don't know how well the expensive stuff works, but I like this stuff just fine.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_154017-81326-PS625_0__?productId=1018733&Ntt=
The comments posted below the item are pretty good! Will be sure to try it.
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The peal & seal I used was like $65.00 for a 36" x 100' roll freight was like $34.00, found my best deal on Amazon.com
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I also used the Lowe's Peel and Seal and it works well on sound deadening . Can't beat the Lowe's price