Rusty Bowtie

General Category => Wood & Framing Section => Topic started by: sixball on January 05, 2020, 01:16:58 AM

Title: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 05, 2020, 01:16:58 AM
Could anyone who can move the posts that Mad Mike and I did about wood framing to this place?
I think I am making progress on my roadster and am getting a lot of help with the wooden part. I am accumulating a lot of specs and other information for '25-'26 Chevy roadster wood parts. A new friend from the HAMB has many patterns and I hope he will bring his pictures and thoughts here too. I spent today taking a closer look at what I have than I ever have and took 35 closeup pictures mostly of joints and other connecting points. I'll put some here when I figure it out again.  I also want to ask Mike if I can put some of his tips and photos on my build thread in the HAMB and maybe move some of his stuff from another thread there?    Thanks!


(DONE-- had to do a cut/paste...the authors name is in bold)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: EDNY on January 05, 2020, 08:41:11 AM
madmike3434


here is something that should assist you with getting the wood door posts right.

Called a profiler, I screwed 4 of them together in order to make sure that the metal gas tank cover panel shape was going to be copied correctly when reworking the panel.

 The same part could be used on your quarter panel to get the right shape top to bottom of the door wood posts . If long enough it could also be used on the wood around the seating area to duplicate it.

Home owner 9" band saw , quality magnetic light to see what you doing and a selection of blades to do hardwood.  Slow and steady , take your time.  Count fingers ???  lmao

A 2-3" drum sander roll  fitted to a multi speed drill press will allow the pattern traced and cut to be sanded to a fine finish .   If you have one of those belt sander tools/machine that lies on its side and has spindle roll holder that goes up and down, makes quick work to the wood.

Use northern white ash wood, cuts great, can be bent and doesn't split like oaks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Shape-Contour-Duplicator-Profile-Gauge-Scale-Tiling-Laminate-Tiles-Edge-US/192884100934?hash=item2ce8c9cf46:m:mScD4788uZNjUi6KeGinsQw

mike lynch.............HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: EDNY on January 05, 2020, 08:41:52 AM
Quote from: madmike3434 on January 02, 2020, 08:17:48 PM


here is something that should assist you with getting the wood door posts right.

Called a profiler, I screwed 4 of them together in order to make sure that the metal gas tank cover panel shape was going to be copied correctly when reworking the panel.

 The same part could be used on your quarter panel to get the right shape top to bottom of the door wood posts . If long enough it could also be used on the wood around the seating area to duplicate it.

Home owner 9" band saw , quality magnetic light to see what you doing and a selection of blades to do hardwood.  Slow and steady , take your time.  Count fingers ???  lmao

A 2-3" drum sander roll  fitted to a multi speed drill press will allow the pattern traced and cut to be sanded to a fine finish .   If you have one of those belt sander tools/machine that lies on its side and has spindle roll holder that goes up and down, makes quick work to the wood.

Use northern white ash wood, cuts great, can be bent and doesn't split like oaks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Shape-Contour-Duplicator-Profile-Gauge-Scale-Tiling-Laminate-Tiles-Edge-US/192884100934?hash=item2ce8c9cf46:m:mScD4788uZNjUi6KeGinsQw

mike lynch.............HAIRBALL

I ordered one of those contour duplicators. If I need more like you did I'll get them. That will come in handy. Probably going to be buying some new wood working tools. My plan is to use as much of the old wood a possible and repair what I can. I'll have to make some new pieces. Like you I prefer the effect the wood has on the sound the doors make and the feel of the body in general. Thanks for the tips I'll need all the help I can get. I have some friends to help. One is a custom cabinet maker with a wood CNC machine in his shop. Another is  Termites and Bowties poster who has two '26 roadsters in pieces and wood and patterns  from them and a '25. Pretty much what I don't have he does. It would be nice to have pictures and specs for one of these posted somewhere. Not even the guys making wood kits go back to '25-'26. My son pointed out that this wood has been part of this car for almost 100 years. It deserves a little help and respect.

Link to some pictures: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/finally-my-26-chevy-roadster-build.1027114/
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Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: EDNY on January 05, 2020, 08:42:45 AM
madmike3434



Followed the link over to the HAMB thread.......what the heck, you got most of the wood, just get the nails out that's holding it in and remove the piece, trunk and quarter panels .  Then get some mountain Northern Ash and fire up the heavy woodworkers pencil and start tracing.

You got quality wood to reproduce, I always assumed it was rotted away to impossible to make pattern of.

One side was great and complete, looks like an exact duplicate of the other to me.

Get that bandsaw running and bingo...........its done.

mike...............HAIRBALL

Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: EDNY on January 05, 2020, 08:50:39 AM
sixball

Thanks Mike. Not only is most of it there but a lot is very solid. Did you see the pieces that the Pontiac guy added new ends to? I think that would work with some of mine. So I think the process is to get the wood out of the sheetmetal and rebuild the entire wood frame and then put the metal back on. The worst thing that can happen is I make a mess of it and have to do it with steel.  :)
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Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: EDNY on January 05, 2020, 08:52:00 AM
madmike3434


I trust your skill level that you can take the wood out of the trunk lid / quarter panel area and using tools previously talked about, duplicate what looks to be very complete. Main thing is you have quality parts to copy and I see that.

I used #4 or #6 size wood screws 1/2" long to hold the front door post to the cowl section rather than nails , which I think would have a tendency to vibrate out.  You need to fit the trunk lid and check the clearance so the rounded top TRUSS HEAD screw heads will clear the quarter panels.  Pre drill the hardwood with tiny drill 1/32" ???

The early read of your thread showing your parts and his where he made replacement parts for the rotted away area would be better served to reproduce the WHOLE wood part as one piece.   Your cabinet maker friend should have a FINGER JOINT TOOL to join long sections together if needed but should not be necessary.  Usually see them used in woodies.

The finger joint is actually stronger they say than one piece.  But mostly its used by lumber companies on 1 x 2" and 2 x 2" wood because they have a whole lot of small cutoffs and want to be able to use them.

 https://www.amazon.ca/Yonico-15131-Reversible-Finger-Router/dp/B00KZM25FG/ref=asc_df_B00KZM25FG/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292947999281&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10520177649745204012&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9000737&hvtargid=pla-450093750600&psc=1

mike lynch..............HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: EDNY on January 05, 2020, 08:53:08 AM
sixball

Thanks again Mike. This is great help. The broken piece on the trunk lid came apart at a finger joint. I can see that the use of shorter pieces with proper joints could be stronger than one long obese because of stress on the wood grain itself. In 1966 I had a summer job at a saw mill in the molding plane. That summer they transitioned from burning the short cutoff to finger joint and gluing. It raised the profits but the whole town smelled of Elmer's gleaned piss fir.
 I agree with using screws where possible. Would there be an advantage to brass to prevent rust? Should I us some sort of adhesive to keep them tight? Pre-drilling the holes will keep me from destroying what I'm trying to fix.

It seems we have hijacked this thread. Maybe someone could move it to the wood section and I will try to post pictures as we go. This could be a good addition here and hopefully encourage others. If I can do it............ :)

Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: EDNY on January 05, 2020, 08:56:38 AM
madmike3434


I think all that needed to be said about draft tube and pvc on this is done.

Oak has big grain to it and splits easily, the wood I am recommending is the WHITE ASH, much more flexible , takes nails or screws great.

I would not use BRASS screws, especially the small ones, they encounter any tightness in installing and bingo, broken in half.  I speak from experience.  I use the steel zinc coated ones or paint the tops.  You need the small rounded top type and in #4 or #6 they start getting small .  Getting them with a SQUARE DRIVE ROBERTSON HEAD is preferable because the blade type is not a good choice.  Slip and slide all over and scratch paint.  But if only going to primer not a problem.   A Phillips head would also be a better choice

  Best screws are the DECK SCREWS coated, but they have tapered heads and difficult to get the head down flat and that's the knock.   You need a counter sink but then your opening up the sheet metal and causing a problem.

these trunk  pieces are coated with the best varnish the boat builders use..........EPIFANES

mike lynch.........hairball
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: EDNY on January 05, 2020, 08:58:06 AM
chopper526


Great job Mike! That wood looks too nice to hide in a car. :)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: EDNY on January 05, 2020, 09:01:59 AM
madmike3434

Thanks chop...........there will be no interior fabrics in the roadster other than seat.  You look in the roadster and all that's going to show is varnished wood.

Always wanted a woodie and this will be the way to get that woodie look inside.

MIKE LYNCH..........mad as a hater and a HAIRBALL TO BOOT
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 05, 2020, 10:47:14 AM
Thank you EDNEY, I hope to get something here later. My hope right now is to have measurements and pattern outlines for complete wood for both '25 and '26 Chevy roadsters that anyone can use to put them together whether they wish to use wood or steel. Maybe even pictures of a complete wood frame for my '26. Hopefully Mike and others will show up to guide me through this.

Working on the picture thing? :)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 05, 2020, 11:25:05 AM
I was poking around in my pictures files/folders and found this.............pictures are of an opened up to view 1934-1935 Chevrolet PHAETON.  These are just pictures I found somewhere, its not my car, but saved them for reference as the touring is going to have the seat moved back 6--9" .  Trying to drive the touring is very difficult , more like piloting a go cart when your 6--3".

I managed to purchase  a seat slider mechanism out of a 32 Pontiac sedan from a fellow member of this forum,  THANK YOU !!!!!!  The phaeton seat is fixed in position an a lot of thought has to go into how to properly modify the B + C pillar post.  Because as you can see in pics the seat frame attaches to the sides, this is necessary to retain the maximum strength in this area , as seat is part of the unit.

Viewing the pictures shows you the amount of wood and how its used in the 33--35 chevrolets open cars I am interested in.   The 1929--1935 Chevrolet roadsters, phaetons and roadster pickups bodys were supplied to Chevrolet by an outside source (  Hercules--- Campbell ) ready to mount on the assembly plant frame.

Note......cabriolets, convertibles , are made by FISHER body and hinges, locks, latches , strikers are exclusive to those Fisher body cars.

Note that there are finger joints in the wood and also scarf joints, mortise and tenon joints ,  plus specialized bracketry to support the wood in various areas.  So examine the pictures and learn something new. ??

Personally I like the solid THUMP of a wood door closing rather than the clink tin can clank of a ford style metal.

questions ?

mike lynch............HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 05, 2020, 11:36:57 AM
chevy 32 Pontiac seat front slider for touring

mike lynch
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 05, 2020, 01:31:47 PM
Great pics and info mike.

I'l start putting some pictures of my roadster her. The first ones are pretty self explanatory. This is a '26 Chevy that I have had for a long time. It'll be a hot rod by and by. I have a complete build thread on the HAMB but here I mostly want to concentrate of restrain the wood in the body. I think there may be more interest on a Bowtie site. Please ask whatever you like, add what you know. tell me what you think.
 Tom

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_1851-jpg.3692174/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_1852-jpg.3692175/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_1849-jpg.3692195/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_1848-jpg.3692196/)





Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 05, 2020, 07:18:18 PM
Not my car but a 34 chev roadster of friend in Knoxville TN area with restored car............there be lots of wood in that baby and it all gets nailed on.

one pic of 34 master phaeton and other of 32 Chevrolet roadster door

mike lynch..........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 05, 2020, 09:09:19 PM
Glad mine is not as curvy as that.
He are some more.

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_1865-jpg.3692197/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_1862-jpg.3692199/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_1863-jpg.3692200/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_1859-jpg.4526755/)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 05, 2020, 09:19:44 PM
Here are some pictures I lifted from a thread on the HAMB by "tb33anda3rd" Some nice repairs on the ends of old pieces.

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/dscf2667-jpg.4527946/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/dscf2666-jpg.4527948/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/dscf2669-jpg.4527950/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/dscf2670-jpg.4527951/)

Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 05, 2020, 10:41:17 PM
SIXBALL, , from the pictures you have posted why scarf the parts together  ???? 

Buy whatever thickness that wood is , place it on the board in NORTHERN ASH
and trace out the one piece of undamaged wood from trunk lid.  Use carpenters pencil to leave a good marking.

 Fire up the 9" bandsaw with 8--10 teeth per inch saw blade and take your time and cut the two pieces out.  Staying away from the line, because your going to use a drum sander in your multi speed drill press to carefully sand the edges to the line.

Now test fit and see how it is, keeping in mind that the metal should not be twisted.  Now go take the top piece and bottom piece and copy them.

Something doesn't look right on the wood piece going across the middle.  How does it attach to the sides
and why does it have 2 pieces look like they are screwed together ?  My thinking is its possible a mortise and tenon joint on the sides.  Other is it might be a lap joint with one laying over the other in a notch.

This is a whole lot easier than trying to cut out rust and fill with new metal without warping it all..

33and 1/3 did a nice job scarfing the joints together on the ends but would be a whole lot stronger and better looking when done as one piece.

The doors can also be done with some patterns looks like they are good enough and the posts.

Dive in......sawdust is not deep yet !

mike lynch..................HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 06, 2020, 12:15:09 AM
Thanks Mike, I know that is exactly what I should do. I'm at the point of no return and I want to take baby steps because this is new to me. I have people here who can help me when I need it. I'm much more comfortable dirty greasy mechanical stuff. Just bear with me and keep giving me the how to. I think the trunk lid is the place to start since 3 of the 4 main pieces are in good shape.

I will have to look at how that center piece is attached. I think one piece is cracked and another piece was scabbed on to brace it. I seems that there should have been more than one brace across that big trunk lid but I don't see anything that makes me think there was more.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 06, 2020, 12:52:20 PM
Here are some details that better show the condition of the wood in connecting areas and damaged areas.

Bottom of right side of cowl with the front of wooden sill still attached. The rail for the front kick panel is straight on both sides with only surface rust.

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0001-jpg.4533717/)

Bottom of left side of cowl with rust that will need a patch and rotten wood but some is good enough to help making a pattern.

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0002-jpg.4533718/)

Another if right side and straight floor board channeling wood for front of sill.

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0004-jpg.4533719/)

Back of cowl right side A pillar and door front.

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0003-jpg.4533720/)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 06, 2020, 03:07:22 PM
you got good patterns there just need to take the rope off blocking the deep end and dive it.

These are very simple cars , and the early ones like your are even simpler.

You can see on the door frame work that the wood has LAPPED JOINTS  ____-------.  you can screw those two parts together and from behind counter sink slightly into the wood T fittings with teeth on them and appropriate 1/4 or 5/16 threads.  Other option is to cut 18 gauge metal in L and put on top to strengthen the joints.

You have a small length of the original main wood sill that all the posts and other parts would attach too. Keeping in mind they build the wood frame THEN attach the metal using nails to it.

 Looking at bottom of cowl panel that would touch the sill, the metal needs to go farther in so the cowl piece has something to attach too.  You still have the foot riser metal with lip on it........great theres perfect angle to attach 1/2" thick wood right across.  I bought cherry to do mine, and not the top quality furniture/kitchen cabinet grade but the discards, because the discards have all the character to them.

mike lynch  ........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 06, 2020, 03:21:08 PM
some seat back assembled pictures.

The stock seat back on 34-35 roadsters is open in the middle, so I bought some cherry wood and marked everything out and inserted the individual parts.  Used brass screws...DON'T , they break to easily.

Note on T nuts, tap the t nut so that the tips leave marks in the wood, take 1/32 or 1/16 drill bit and drill holes into wood, that way when you tighten the bolt it takes less power to do it, they don't call it hard wood for nothing.

Note the 4 main pieces of the seat frame back are HALF LAPPED over each other for strength.  Standard wood working design.

A FORSTNER wood bit is used to countersink  the T nut in the rear into the wood.

mike  lynch........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 06, 2020, 03:54:55 PM
SIXBALL using your picture.............right at the very end facing the firewall metal, that's the thickness of the wood you need for the SILL .  Your firewall will bolt thru the wood and into your frame and give you a pattern for the end, its a start.

 Your door posts a & b will both attach to it. 

Also note the picture somewhere in this thread of the sills for my 34-35 roadster.  Those slotted areas on the wood are for lapped stringers to go side to side and keep the sill wood separated.  In my car both the roadster and the phaeton have these and the metal floor panels attach to them with nails or screws, take your choice.  The floor panel in trunk over the rear end also attaches to a cross piece and is nailed or screwed to it.

The previous owner of the tub took stock floor metal panels out and replaced with stainless steel, show car crap.  I managed to negotiate with him for the 2 parts that were like NOS.  They need redoing and hopefully this spring in powder coated signal red to match body.

mike lynch...............HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 06, 2020, 07:34:52 PM
Mike you are making a very good case for full replacement. That was not my intent at first but you are convincing me. I fear that a couple of my "helpers" will balk but it's my car and very likely my only '26 roadster. Crap, now I'll have to paint it too.  ;D
I'm learning so much as you talk me through. Once the body is together and I can get real measurements from it I am going to make some frame changes that may dictate changes to the sills or at least how the sills attach to the frame. But I'll be an expert by then.  ::) Thank you.

More closeups: Trunk lid

The front driver side corner with missing piece. There are finger points in some of these long curved pieces.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0010-jpg.4533930/)

This is the same joint on the passenger side.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0011-jpg.4533932/)

Passenger side again with part of the hinge looking across to the missing driver side piece.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0012-jpg.4533933/)

This is further down the passenger side showing 1/2 of one of the trunk holder uppers. The cross brace at the bottom is about the middle of the lid.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0013-jpg.4533935/)

Here is the passenger side lower corner. I don't know what the little tacked on piece is. Part of the seat frame in the background.

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0014-jpg.4533937/)

The trunk latch. It sits off center to the right. I think to miss the spare tire bracket that was centered below the trunk.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0015-jpg.4533938/)

The driver side lower corner.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0016-jpg.4533939/)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 06, 2020, 07:57:09 PM
Driver side quarter:

Lower rear to sill
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0018-jpg.4534616/)

Metal plate near mid quarter top I think it is a wear guard for the trunk holder upper.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0019-jpg.4534617/)

Top of quarter front of trunk area and rear of passenger compartment. The large block has a grove/ notch that matches one on the other side. That piece ends there with an old cut. there is another two screw plate close to the sheet metal that runs across the notch.I've been told it is for a brace rod for hardware that held the top when it was down. Maybe also side to side support.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0020-jpg.4534621/)


Front of Quarter with B pillar/door latching and alignment hardware. The metal bracket goes through and is part of the mounting hardware for a top.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0021-jpg.4534627/)

Full B pillar with door alignment tabs and notch for latch. Top mount bracket sticking through. You can see the notch in the block in the back.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0023-jpg.4534683/)

Bottom front of quarter where B pillar fastens to sill.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0022-jpg.4534629/)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sammons on January 06, 2020, 08:09:16 PM
Sixball, looks like you have quite a bit of good wood in that old body. Nevada must preserve it pretty good. Around here it's hard to find any old body with wood left other than up high and away from any opening. I'm glad Mike has you leaning toward complete new pieces vs splice. Probably faster to make a new piece than to splice in. If it were just a small area on a piece maybe fix.

I'm trying to talk that kid with the model A coupe i'm working on (not lately :D), to buy the wood kit for the header and around the windows. Looks like a real pain in the a$$ to try to do in metal. 

In high school shop class (78) Dad needed a new header for his '48 Ford conv. Told me to take the old rotted one to school and build new. It was plenty good for a pattern. Looking for ash in the storage and there was none, but I found some Birds eye maple with a name on it from another class. Got a hold of him and he sold me the wood. His eyes were to big for his next project so I got it for $25. It was pretty done, kind of ashame to cover most of it up with a convertible top. ;D
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 06, 2020, 10:12:20 PM
 Sammons,I built a muzzle loader for a friend. It was a quality kit. Very good parts but just a hunk of wood for a stock. Supposed to be birds eye maple but I could see no grain at all. Got it together and test fired. Really a good shooter and very accurate. Went back and started finishing the stock and the grain just popped! It was beautiful. I tried to buy it from the guy but once he saw that stock he wouldn't part with it. I don't know if he ever shot it. It was a 54 cal. authentic Hawken plains rifle style. I wish I had it.

I agree that it's probably best to make all new wood. Maybe I'll patch the old stuff for practice and to have patterns.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 06, 2020, 10:29:02 PM
Passenger side quarter:

Rear lower where it meets the sill and lower cross piece.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0024-jpg.4535500/)

Same as metal plate as on the other quarter. I think now these are wear guards for where the trunk holder upper thing rides when the trunk is closed. They may have had a rubber bumper.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0025-jpg.4535501/)

Forward is to the left. Broken piece is part of notched block like the other side. I have the rest of it. Piece with hole is from top of B (latch) pillar to back of passenger compartment. The hole is for the bracket that holds the top when down. Piece on the right is the long S piece from back of passenger compartment to lower rear sill.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0026-jpg.4535502/)

Top front of quarter with B latch pillar.The 4 screw holes are for the metal bracket and top bolt that goes through like the other side. I have it. Fire damager seen on the right. We almost lost this one!
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0027-jpg.4535503/)

Lower front where B pillar meets the sill
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0028-jpg.4535504/)

B pillar lookin back
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0029-jpg.4535505/)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 06, 2020, 11:24:19 PM
This is the last of the current pictures. These are of the sills and back.

This is the back end of the sills and the cross piece under the trunk.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0030-jpg.4535625/)

Left rear corner. The hole is the rear mount on frame. The driver side rear quarter fills the space between outside of sill and cross piece with sheet metal on it.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0031-jpg.4535626/)

Right rear corner, mount hole is behind L bracket. Bracket screws to cross piece and Quarter long S piece. It appears to be original and I think I have the other one
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0032-jpg.4535627/)

Side of rear sills showing kickup and how they are pieced with flat pieces. Rear mount bolt still in place. L bracket in place.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0033-jpg.4535628/)

One more right rear corner and length of passenger side sill. There is the sheet metal piece that fits under the door. The quarter would go all the way to the floor and follow the contour of the sill through the pickup to the cross piece. The front of this sill is the broken piece still attached to the right front cowl bottom. The sills are made of stacked and angle cut flat pieces. There are notches in the sills for the A and B pillars.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200104_0034-jpg.4535629/)

OK, that's all the pictures for now, I started dragging the band saw out this afternoon and sharpening my pencils.  8)




Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 06, 2020, 11:53:11 PM
In order to get a better idea of the shape of the roadster I googled it and bingo up comes a you tube video of a 1925 roadster.  You get a real good idea of the way the quarter panels flow to the back.  Now it becomes clearer of why the wood parts are like they are.

I used my camera and froze the picture on my computer monitor and took a picture of it of various areas.  The trunk lid area was of most interest.  Will load them into computer files tomorrow. Here is the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmU8mpSxDS0

mike lynch............HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 07, 2020, 12:02:36 AM
Trolling ebay for whats for sale for 25-26 Chevrolet

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1925-1926-1927-Chevrolet-Roadster-or-Touring-Car-Dash-Panel/264578401347?hash=item3d9a1a0443:g:BroAAOSwk8JeA7pC

mike lynch.........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 07, 2020, 01:43:35 AM
I'm always looking for stuff for it on eBay.
The biggest difference I know of between '25 and '26 was the trunk and back area. The trunk on mine is almost the whole top of the back part. The tulip piece behind the passenger compartment behind the seat is a small thin piece compared to '25. The lid goes all the way down in the back to the cross piece. That causes the wood to be different also. I also think '25 was the last year when the distributer ran off the back of the generator. From "26 to '28 that were driven by the cam. The necessary hole in the block weakened it. The racers preferred the '25 and earlier blocks with a '28 head which had 2 exhaust ports. Serious guys found a 3 port Olds head. The front crossmembers and motor mounts were different too.

This is a '26 you can see the trunk hinges high on the back behind the seat area. Also notice the 3 header pipes for the Olds head. This was a bad one! :o


(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/25chevy1932muroc3-jpg.4535747/?temp_hash=fbf0303d2e22bbadda7fbd6805c70547)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 07, 2020, 09:15:25 AM
I see that the rear area is different.
 
Neat looking old time hot rod, the side splash shields add to a more cleaned up look.   Big wire wheels I think I remember you saying you were going to run 19" on yours.

I do not remember an OLDS motor that was a 4 cylinder, their cars were 6 cylinders starting in 1923 and before that assorted mason V8 motors starting around 1915.

So the 3 port your talking about is a ** 6 ** cylinder olds, and not a flathead six as Olds were 1923 and up.  Picture shows a rocker valve cover, whats up with that. ?

mike lynch........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 07, 2020, 01:05:03 PM
Olds made four cylinder OHV engines from 1921-1923.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzhoUFzwTdU

Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: chopper526 on January 07, 2020, 01:27:50 PM
Please don't beat me up here. You guys really know what you are doing with this wood, and it looks like you have enough to use for templates or to restore, but some of it looks intricate to reproduce and to me it just screams metal. Sorry ;)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 07, 2020, 01:53:00 PM
CHOP...........I am just a regular guy no expert or anything.  I had no experience with wood other than replacing the wood in top of my 35 3w coupe back in 70's .

The 35 roadster is a whole other can of worms, ( no termites ) .  If you have a piece of rotted wood that you can use as a pattern that's most of the solution.  Using a 9" homeowners bandsaw, drill press with 2" drum sander, a RIGID home depot laying on its side belt sander that moves up and down and also has a spindle for drum sand rolls, Assortment of wood chisels, Japanese hand saw, Forstner bits for making perfectly round holes in wood, plus the spade style.

 Got some books on it , but it really just really comes down to common sense , looking at whats there and how to do it right without mickey mouse-ing it . 

Theres nothing especially TRICK about measuring 3 times cutting once for the seat back fill in pieces that are not even supposed to be there.  But I will have upholstery I can quickly remove and throw in trunk to show off the seat wood work, I am very proud of.  I think making wood replacement parts is a whole lot easier FOR ME, than making metal.  Sounds better too, thump, like a real chevy , not a tin can ford CLANG.

mike lynch...............HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 07, 2020, 02:19:03 PM
Continuing on with showing wood parts for 34-35 Chevrolet roadster that have been redone.

These pictures show the metal panel that sits between the rumble/trunk lid and the seating area.
The wood part that fits under it attaches to the wood stringers that run along the trunk opening each side.
They extend thru the wood seatback surround.
Note the slots in that piece, 1/4" wide, that's for the wood to expand and contract as the metal lip from the piece fits into it.
Weirdly the panel and quarter panel float in that opening, and there is nothing sealing it to stop water infiltration.
 On my coupe also has this but because its a FISHER body the seams are filled with lead.

On the long curved parts note the cutouts in the wood and sunken holes made with FORSTNER BITS.  Those cutouts are for support metal or wood that go down to the floor. On the lower one its for the rumble lid support pinion that allows rumble to open.

mike lynch...................HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 07, 2020, 02:31:28 PM
Olds made four cylinder OHV engines from 1921-1923.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzhoUFzwTdU

At one point I had a company called GASKET KING , and had 28,000 pre 1948 headgaskets, selling them in Hemmings motor news.  I bought the complete company samples of every head gasket they made from 1909 up to 1948..     I do not remember ever having cylinder head gaskets for 1921--23 olds , nor ever being asked for them.  I wish I still had my 1899---1930 issue of Fitzgerald gasket company application book .  I'd like to see what a stock head gasket looks like and the part number.

Mason made motors for gm, just wondering if its a 4 cyl OHV chev 1916--1928 with an oldsmobile cylinder head made for it ????  Pictures u posted say OLDS.



Just googled OLSONS HEAD GASKETS, turns out the motor in question is a 1916--1922 Chevrolet and the gaskets are the same for the Oldsmobile 43A 1921--1923  But with 3 port olds head

interesting................mike......HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 07, 2020, 02:57:20 PM
Please don't beat me up here. You guys really know what you are doing with this wood, and it looks like you have enough to use for templates or to restore, but some of it looks intricate to reproduce and to me it just screams metal. Sorry ;)

Chopper, Believe me I hearing a lot of that right here from my friends. That would be the easy way and maybe the smart way but it's not the Cowboy way.  8) It was born a Chevy and has one more chance to die a Chevy. It's been this way for 94 years  much of that time              unprotected out side. It has survived at least one fire and a bunch of neglect. Who am I to to ignore the craftsman ship that got it here. Besides I desecrating everything else. ;D
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 07, 2020, 03:25:29 PM
Nice pictures Mike. Maybe I'll redo the wood and replace the sheet metal with plexiglass. :o
I seems that there is either one more or one less hole on the Olds head that has to be dealt with to use it on a Chevy.

I put this on my HAMB build thread  and thought I put it here same as the picture posts. It is my present plan and I hope would keep the project moving while I take the new wood detour.

Posting and labeling the pictures my seem like I'm talking to myself. Well I am. Handling the pieces and trying to figure them out, photographing them, posting, and writing descriptions has given me a place to start that I think will allow progress on the body and frame at the same time so I can keep my "crew" involved. This is kind of like running a small business. :confused: Idle hands are the Devil's workshop and these guys idle hands will lead to no good.:D
The key seems to be the sills. They are to point where the frame and body meet. The body sheet metal wraps around the outer edge of the sill and is nailed to it. So the outside of the sill is the shape of the body.
There are mount holes in the sill that locate the body on the frame. As built the frame is mostly narrower than the body. I want the frame and body contour to be the same from the front of the cowl all the way back. To do that the frame will take some cutting, bending, welding, and a bit of lengthening to make it come out right.
That will change the relation between the mount holes in the sills and the frame
Here's the present plan. I will use the old sills as patterns to make new sills and bolt them to the frame. Then I will make cross pieces to build what Ford guys might all a sub floor. Check it, measure it, make sure it is right and gives me the curve I want for the body frame contour. It will have to include building over the pickup all the way to the end of the body.
Then we will shape the frame lengthen the existing cross members, build a rear crossmember and what ever else needs attention. When the frame is the right shape and length we can start on the suspension and mounts etc.
When the frame is the right shape I can put the sub floor back on and see where the mounts line up and make any other needed changes. That done I can use the sills for patterns for real sills and begin the new wood body frame construction. This way the build can go on in two places either in one shop or two until we are ready to put the body on the frame.:)

What do you think?
 
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 07, 2020, 05:35:36 PM
Here is what I think.  If you do not have the firewall to rear sill patterns, how about this for an idea.

Assemble the frame on jackstands.  Get a piece of 1/4" plywood 4 foot x 8 foot and lay it on the frame and bolt down thru firewall bolt thru the frame.

Mount the firewall,  door and quarter panels sitting it on the frame.

Out comes the marker pen and trace the body shape onto the plywood.   Now you have the beginnings of the frame sill wood plate pattern.  ... Trick is if you could find pictures of the trunk area wood and how its made would be HUGE.. 

 You may have to join the VCCA CHAT and post the question in the 1916...28 chev section looking for pictures of exactly what you want.   Hopefully somebody will be able to help you out.

mike lynch..............HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 07, 2020, 06:23:08 PM
When you bolt the 4X8 plywood on the frame what do you do about the kickup area. I think my passenger side sill is up to the task of pattern making. I'm going down in the morning to remove the sill pieces from the cowl and see who complete the right side is. I'll get the thickness and figure what material I'll need. I will probably layer plywood with glue and screws. This is just a temporary work piece for reference. I may use some particle board left over from the chicken house.
 
 I started pulling my band saw out of the back of the shed. It's way in the back behind some big machine shop tools. I'll get some new blades and belts for my belt sanders.  My friend has a drum sander. I need to buy one of those osculating multi tools and an assortment of blades, I need one anyway. I'll get a Japanese flush cut saw too.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 07, 2020, 06:34:15 PM
was thinking about rear of frame as I replied........but don't see picture posted of the complete frame.

Mark the kick up from below and cut away everything not needed.

On the 34 and down cars the kick up was made out of wood using many pieces. See if I can find that picture again.. My 35's the kickup is stamped metal.

picture is of all the framework in a 34 chev roadster note kickup area, yours may have been constructed similar.  ??  This will give the trunk floor a flat panel.

mike lynch
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 08, 2020, 12:21:24 AM
its 12.15 am, decided to try a google search on 26 chev for wood kits or plans.

came up with this listed on ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-ONLY-Body-Manual-1926-1927-1928-1929-1930-Chevy-Fisher-Shop-Wood-/361478937725

mike lynch..........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 08, 2020, 12:54:20 AM
I've seen those before. I may even have one somewhere. I'm sure it would be helpful in a general way, the techniques and how to stuff. I don't think there is anything specific because Fisher didn't make the roadster or touring bodies. I'll look through my old Chevy books and maybe order one . There is bound to some helpful information.  Thanks for looking.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 08, 2020, 09:59:40 AM
I know that FISHER BODY did not make the bodies for Chevrolet open cars ; roadster, phaeton ,roadster pickup 1929--1935.   These were produced by an outside supplier directly to the assembly line, Hercules -Campbell .

I have not seen anything written about earlier than 1929 open car bodies as to who made them............like the 25-26 roadster your dealing with.  These books are always worth having and being able to take information written in them and use it in repairing your wood framing.


NOTE, the main sill wood that the body sits on will not go over the rear end but will stop there, or it should.

mike lynch...........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 08, 2020, 11:53:55 AM
Yes , I agar that little information is out there  dealing with wood for these older Chevys. The basic wood working techniques used in all that old coachwork must be similar. Since I know nothing learning something would be a good thing.

From the measurements I made my cut off frame ends 4 1/2" to 5" before the end of the body. That will be taken care of during the rest of the frame modification. It will end at the back of the body. The rear suspension will be quarter elliptics so I don't need the long rear frame rails. Going down today to get more measurements and pictures. I'll get the wood out of the cowl and the metal off of the back piece and get a better look at how it all fits back there.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 09, 2020, 12:38:17 AM
I spent most of the day taking wood and sheet metal apart. Just little stuff. I figured out what some of the wood is and found thatI had some I thought was gone. The pieces between the trunk and back of passenger area art there and good for patterns. There is a pice gone from the good sill,Passenger side but it will be east to complete any way. I took a lot of pictures but lucky for you there was too much back light so they didn't come out. I checked a lot of measurements and held pieces together. Quarters, doors, cowl all work out to the right places on the frame. Mounting holes line up. All in all a good day but I'll have to retake a lot of pictures.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 09, 2020, 09:49:24 AM
all good news of the existing pieces in good enough shape to be copied.............going to save you a lot of time and grief if you had to imaginer them !

Now to find a wood supplier who can supply you with some white ash or northern ash.

Pictures of the parts be nice to see when ready.

mike lynch
HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 09, 2020, 12:19:40 PM
Yeah, Mike it was a pretty good day. What seemed to be a random pile of old wood is giving up it's secrets. The A pillar with the door hinges that looked so solid is soft and rotten. My pocket knife went right into it. It may fall apart on removal. The door wood is quite solid. A couple of screws appeared to be holding tight but when I got them to turn the rust and old wood crumbled. I got them out but they didn't unscrew. I could not believe how tight and solid the sheet metal under the passenger door was attached. It was tough to get the many nails out. The metal fit tight and still had the black primer on the inside with just some surface rust. The wood under it was like new, clean, solid, light color. I was a little spooked at some of the complexity of combined shapes. A lot of measuring,figuring and cutting to come. The cabinetmaker is in and he says white ash in available and not outrageous in price. He also made the distinction between northern and southern ash, also a Japanese variety that he said is almost  like balsa wood.

 I'll start on my subfloor template next and get a little practice before starting on patterns and actual parts. I was also surprised to seethe taper on the outside of the sill from top to bottom that fits the body angle top to bottom. Close observation is a must.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 09, 2020, 05:09:08 PM
Main thing is to be able to get them apart intact, rotted or not.  Think about using coated DECK SCREWS to tighten parts up in order to remove them.

You can probably inject something into the wood when its crumbly.  I just don't know the name of a product, most likely a google search will bring up a few recommendations and maybe even a few you tube videos.

I found that some were not wood screws but machine screws that went into a metal ring that was tapped with thread and nailed to the other side of the wood.  Funny I just bought 6 the other day NOS on ebay.
They are basically the same as T nuts but held in with nails instead of the 3 barbs.

I have 3 or 4 small tools for removing small nails, one is called a CATS PAW. Usually the head snaps off then out with the small vice grips to take another attack at it.

Your cabinet maker buddy is right, white ash is not an expensive wood but I has a lot of quality features not present in OAK or Maple .   GM used mostly ash in the 30's.  Auto makers would use the best product for the cheapest and easiest to get price.
The JAP ash wood that's like balsa, light weight.............you have to google it.  When I build structures for model railroads I use BASSWOOD , never balsa.

If you go back into my posts there is a picture of the SILLS for my roadster posted.

mike lynch ........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 09, 2020, 05:16:08 PM
I found the SHAZZBOTT thread deep in the bowls of RUSTY BOWTIE site and here is a link to the page on here.  There is 8 pages of stuff just on my 35 roadster build, still going on

http://rustybowtie.com/index.php?topic=860.0

mike lynch........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 09, 2020, 06:05:55 PM
Thanks for the insight into the kinds of fasteners I might run into and what is available. The tools you use is helpful also also. The deck screw idea is a good one, put it together before you take it apart. If someone with experience had been around when  repaired my '51 Ford woody it might have come better and I wouldn't have that experience in the back of my mind now.

 Keep checking my thread on the HAMB. Grumpy gaby2 on there also has experience and some detailed comments. There is too much there to move it all over here too. I know it would be frustrating for you not to be able to comment directly there.

Thanks for the link back to your posts on your wood build. I knew there was more somewhere. Some of your stuff is in the folder I'm putting together to have handy.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 09, 2020, 11:40:14 PM
surfing thru the barrett Jackson auction docket listings I found this 1926 chev speedster

very interesting build

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1926-CHEVROLET-CUSTOM-SPEEDSTER-236086

mike lynch..........  HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 10, 2020, 01:03:32 AM
That car was here at the Inliners International Convention in 2012. A nice little car. I don't know what on it was a '26 though. The guy made the body and the radiator shell is a '25, frame '32. The engine was either a modded 153 or a 181 Mercruiser, Same family as my 153 Chevy II. I think it had a T-5 transmission, It is a well built car and won one of the trophies I made for the event. I heard that the guy that built it died but I'm not sure. I talked with him fro quite a while. A lot of work on the throttle linkage!

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0129-jpg.4538641/?temp_hash=ebc8fad8dea64ac13b61c7a37f39e5d3)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0130-jpg.4538640/?temp_hash=ebc8fad8dea64ac13b61c7a37f39e5d3)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 10, 2020, 09:40:55 AM
these are the T nut I bought other day that are nailed in original style without the barbs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NORS-front-seat-bracket-nuts-fits-1934-1935-1936-Buick-Cadillac-Chevy-Pontiac/132945483408?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

mike lynch.........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: ghost28 on January 10, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
If and when I build another wood structured car, I might have to try my wood working skills, but for now I am hitting the 55 gasser pretty hard, and trying for this summer
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 10, 2020, 06:51:48 PM
I'd like to have this thing be a roller by summer. The bent frame horn got straightened today and the new spring bushings and bolts came. I think I also found the one piece if missing sheet metal.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: TFoch on January 11, 2020, 09:20:21 AM
I love the enthusiasm Sixball.  Hope to see it as a roller by summer.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3434 on January 11, 2020, 03:44:19 PM
just spotted these B pillar Chevrolet door post covers the rear ones ?  or the fronts.   These hide all the screws and hinge assembly.......no idea if they fit back as far as 26 .


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Chevy-29-31-Roadster-and-Touring-Door-Stop-Slam-Set-30-32-Roadster-PU/164021847099

HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 12, 2020, 12:26:04 AM
Thanks Tom, I'm trying to keep it moving. I have to get the frame beady to go or these guys are going to do it without me.  :o

Mike , Good find. I don't think they would fit mine but that is a good idea.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 12, 2020, 07:02:10 PM
go5t myself locked out of rusty bowtie and until just now figured out old password.

What those metal parts are is COVERS.  Usually there is one for the A post and one for the B post.  They cover up all the nail and screw heads 

They are held on with just 4 wood screws and gives a great clean look.   I would imagine your 26 would also use them ?

mike lynch.............hairball
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 12, 2020, 10:50:31 PM
I don't think the were used on my '26. I have all but one small metal piece. I thing at least one would have survived. I tried to sort out all of the wood today and found there ia more missing than I thought. I'm about 6" short of one complete sill and a foot and a half on the other side. I have all of the trunk floor and quite a bit of the seat frame but a lot is missing. I need to take another look around here. It's been moved around over the years.

Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 13, 2020, 11:22:41 AM
have been searching for pictures of older restorations with the doors open to see if I can spot the post covers.  This would be an easily answered question in the VCCA CHAT 1916---1928 Chevrolet section.

Unfortunately I cannot post over there due to ripping some clown apart in a post.

Was just cruising ebay again and found a pair of nice windshield posts and also a real nice r r fender listed on auction.

mike lynch.,,............  HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 13, 2020, 06:55:29 PM
Dang Mike, Be careful here I need you!  ;D  The reason I'm doing the wood is so it will show where it should. If it is going to be steel I can save myself some anxiety. I have very nice windshield posts and not running fenders. If you come across a '25 front crossmember, the stampeded one or the right side rear front spring mount let me know.
By the way i think I have found the missing sheet metal piece for below the driver door at "Early Chevy Parts" He is listed in our Chevy Parts Sources at the bottom of this page. His listed parts are about 30 pages and he has others. That is also where I got spring bolts and bushings.I'm looking to to a larger order as he has things I need. He sells the hidden hinges for the early open cars like mine. Not a lot of open car stuff but some.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 13, 2020, 08:25:45 PM
Did not think you were in market for a fender with design of car your building, but thought I would mention it anyway . The windshield posts are wow really long but looked to be in great shape.

Ya having all that new wood in there with epifanes varnish glowing like a honey dew stick.  The floors will knock your socks off making you want to demand anybody getting into your ride REMOVE THE SHOES !!

I had all the wood flooring in cherry cut and fitted and gorgeous. Then a tragedy struck. 

I decided to put a tremec T-56 six speed stick behind the mock up sbc.  The x member got trashed the floor parts put into the #2 shed while I completely redesigned the chassis.  Unless your going to sit the motor 8" lower it has to stick up into the pass compartment by 6--10".  Motor would have to be a dry sump system and electric fans................no damn way.

Glad you found the rocker panels , damn like Xmas at sixballs.

Don't forget new saw blade for the bandsaw, tighten belt and your off to the races.

mike .............HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 13, 2020, 08:38:29 PM
Been trying to find this picture of the wood sills for 34-35 chev roadster + phaeton.

They start at the firewall and run all the way back to where the rear quarter panel wheel well starts and the rear fender shapes in.   Your panels don't have this feature, but its general idea.

Note the matching cutouts 2 high and 2 lower back.  This same system should be used in your 26. In my 35 in between the front and rear cutouts is the metal under the seat flooring metal panel.  The rear trunk metal panel nails or screws to the 2nd cross piece.  Behind that would be the final  floor panel.. No reason why those 2 trunk pieces in metal could not be done in wood.

Can you imagine opening up the trunk lid and looking inside at a cherry wood floor all epifanes varnished.

mike lynch........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 14, 2020, 12:03:15 AM
Here are some pictures from yesterday.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200112_0008-jpg.4541603/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200112_0009-jpg.4541607/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200112_0007-jpg.4541609/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0231-jpg.4541610/)





Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 14, 2020, 12:07:33 AM
More:
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200112_0002-jpg.4541611/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200112_0001-jpg.4541612/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200112_0004-jpg.4541613/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/200112_0005-jpg.4541614/)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 14, 2020, 02:30:21 PM
of coarse these will not fit your 26.........but showing you how long they area and how they have areas where 1/2" or more boards would fit into the slots to tie the two sides together and that's how they did it...........most likely for 26 also.

mike
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 14, 2020, 07:07:20 PM
Looking at the pieces for your car and what is left of mine does give me a general idea of how it all works. That is a big deal. Placing the trunk deck boards in place showed me the width between sill in the back. even with some missing from my good sill I figured how to get the right spacing between the fronts and how to get the right contour. I also know I can use the right sill to make the left one. It is coming together in my mind and as I get more into it I'll figure more out. I may have found another source of parts  very near here. I'm checking it ut now.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on January 21, 2020, 03:04:16 PM
Well I'm finally on! Thanks EDNY! I guess that I am now part of your Splinter Group. I'll have to go find my tweezers.
I received some Evapo-rust and some citric acid in the mail this morning, going to try each to see how I like them.
Checked with my local hard wood dealer yesterday for white ash (northern, mountain). He had what he calls eastern ash, was saying that ash prices were going up. Didn't get any because I had the wife's newer car....couldn't get 10 footers in.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 21, 2020, 10:15:11 PM
I've been in the mud for several days now repairing broken pipes.. I thought I had it whipped yesterday but it broke in a new spot this morning. It's done now but there is a small leak. I'll get it tomorrow. I haven't been to see the car since I took those last pictures. I've been working on the front axle and springs. I am happy with Evaporust on the small front end parts I've cleaned. I'llget a bunch painted soon. There is a box of parts missing and I'm hoping the rear mount for the passenger side front spring is in it. Still trying to figure out how to make the template for the new frame shape so we can work on the chassis while I'm fussing with the body.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on January 22, 2020, 11:11:50 AM
Six Ball asked me to come over to this sight and put up some of the pics that he and I had been taking and sending back and forth!
This for the wood for a 1926 Chevrolet roadster. I hope it helps someone, and also gets comments from the people that know how to do the wood for these old G.M. cars. I have been learning just from trial and error...lots of error! These are old pictures that I had to take new pics of because at this point, I cannot scan. They show the five pieces of wood that came with my roadster. And also some of the guessing J did. The pine sill is patterned from an old 26 coach sill......They are not close.



Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on January 22, 2020, 12:02:09 PM
I'll ad that the doors had some wood. And I found a second set of doors with some wood. I got some of the door wood copied but nut much else except for the kick down and guessing at the seat back.
I was a member of the VCCA at that time and started talking to Ray Holland. He was the 1925 advisor and had a very nice 25 roadster. Anyway, I ended up borrowing some of Ray's old wood to make my patterns from. The 25 and 26 are the same as far back as the back of the seat. So I gained a hole lot of info by assembling his old wood.... It did not go together like this old farm kid had thought!

 
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 22, 2020, 12:52:36 PM
Thanks for posting those here. I hope at some point to photograph my pieces laid out in a way to identify each one possibly with measurements. Maybe tracings on paper. I will write on each one before or upon removal.
Two questions:
!. In the photos of the left quarter is the long diagonal piece part of the big S piece that ha dropped down or does it run from the seat back area to the back of the sill near the kick-up?
2. In the last picture are the pieces in the upper left with the small sandwiched pads the ones that run between the quarters at the back of the seat above the trunk?
You are the only one who mentioned the splinter joke. I think the others are just tired of my poor attempts at humor.  :o
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 22, 2020, 03:47:20 PM
By the amount of READS at top of page I would say this is a very interesting subject to internet lookie loos not associated with this site.

Your *SIXBALL*  pictures of your 26 roadster make more sense to me because they are still in the metal body and easier to figure out what gm was doing. 

The wood that runs along the top from the B door post back to what should be the back of seat area.  How that's joined together needs to be figured out.  The wood from back of seat and along the quarter panel area, that looks fairly simple to understand and fabricate.

Couple of the 4 pictures posted on a single post by GABY made sense in the one picture. Would like to see those 4 turned into individual posted pics.  Allows them to be viewed in a larger single picture.

If the SILL PLATES L & R can be duplicated that's the start of unwinding the "how does this work"
The end is in sight, just clouded up stopping us viewing the end result.

Still say you need to make contact with somebody on VCCA group or possible the ACCA group, somebody has exact info you need.

mike lynch...........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 22, 2020, 04:02:20 PM
Thanks Mike I am encouraged and learn each time you post. Sometimes you say what I'm thinking and sometimes I had not even thought about what you are telling me. I get smarter every day!
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on January 22, 2020, 04:13:08 PM
Number 1. Yes this is all that I have of the long S pieces.

Number 2. Will not be that easy to explain CLEARLY but I will try. The short sandwich pieces are photographed together. (this is incorrect) One per side of seat is correct. The seat back mounts in the half lap on the front of the sandwich piece, the top piece of the front part of the quarter panel (where your arm would rest while driving) mounts to the end of the sandwich piece. The big block that you have, mounts to the back side of the sandwich piece (maybe with a spacer between). Then the long S butts up to the back of the big block (with the trunk hinge angle holding the S and big block together) The cross piece above the trunk opening also mounts in this area. You should be able to tell from your pieces with the sheet metal holding them together where there are spacers or not. When you get a chance, get some close ups of your sheet metal group.

Madmike, I will try to get those separated as soon as I can, but I believe that I have lost my scanning program.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 22, 2020, 04:23:52 PM
GABBY..........if you can use your digital camera to take new pictures of the original set of 4 sheet by blocking off the view of the pictures next and below , then posting those , a scanner isn't needed.

SIXBALL just went thru a folder book I bought by don marsh trying to find some pictures useful to this conversation.  Worthless !!!

mike............HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 22, 2020, 04:41:01 PM
came up with another idea, use my camera and computer monitor to blow up the pictures wanted, then copy them and post them to the thread.

Bummer have to email them to myself then copy and then go back into pics files and post them.........GRRRRRRR

mike lynch.,,.......... HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 22, 2020, 05:03:08 PM
here they are all 9 of them........blown up, dragged, photo'ed

SIXBALL picture  ****D**** is especially useful as it shows the door post to the sill and the dash

mike..........   HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 22, 2020, 06:47:28 PM
Thats crazy, I had some time this afternoon while the pipe glue was drying and I separated this pictures too. I have to put them on the HAMB, easy, then move them here , not so easy. Those are GG2 pictures.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 22, 2020, 07:17:39 PM
no idea why you want to post them on the other site, nothing going on there for months.

THIS is*** the place*** where early Chevrolet is spoken and how to correct problems.  Other than RORA doing his 34 roadster and surprised they did not kill his pictures because in their view its not pre 64 orientated .

mike
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 22, 2020, 08:05:14 PM
There is a lot going on on my build thread. It is about the whole car and here I'm trying mostly to get the wood build here. I think we are getting a lot of good information in one place here. The tips about other places to look and what other groups might be able to help. The rest is just a hot rod that is not a Ford nothing that couldn't have happened in a garage on the early 60s. Well almost.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/finally-my-26-chevy-roadster-build.1027114/ (https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/finally-my-26-chevy-roadster-build.1027114/)

One of the great things about this site is that it shares a similar attitude with the Studebaker Drivers Club. If it was ever a Studebaker and you drive it they love it. Do what you want it's still a Stude. We do that here with Chevys. We build what we like and the rest accept it. They may think we are nuts but we are friends nuts. The other big Studebaker club is not that way and neither are some of the other old Chevrolet groups. Sometimes you just have be in stealth mode. Get in get the information and get out.  ::)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on January 23, 2020, 11:33:38 AM
Mad Mike was faster than I was! I did the reshoot and was trying to get a message up when I saw Mike's, so changed to other pics (of what I had tried, not the old wood in place) but it locked up and dumped me.

Six Ball You were asking about the sandwich block and seat back. I took your LEFT SIDE picture and flipped it.....So now it looks like a right side. And then blew both it and the real right side pictures up.

One has the big block, big S (Deck Opening Side Rail), and top/front (Side Belt Rail) wood hooked together. The other has the sandwich block, big S (Deck Opening Side Rail), and top/front (Side Belt Rail) wood hooked together. If you notice in the big block picture, there is a screw coming out of the top/front wood. This had to go into the sandwich block. So no spacer. (seat top rests on half lap of sandwich block, trunk top (Rear Belt Rail) wood attaches to the back of the big block) ( I am going to dig through my piles to find my Fisher wood book. I have to start calling these pieces their real names!) (Fisher Book didn't do that great, They do not have "sandwich or Big blocks)

The screws are in the same locations on my old wood as Ray Holland's, And I bet yours also. All three cars were built in Oakland. I am betting that they jigged these pieces and predrilled the screw holes. I guess what I'm getting at is document your screw locations and from which direction. They will help us locate things closer!


Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 23, 2020, 12:25:56 PM
Good job, That helps. Finding the real names of the parts would help our discussion. Screw direction will tell a lot. It is a shame that the PO of my body just broke the Big Ss loose in the rear because the screws are under the metal.
I have to get my water issue done so I can get back to this. I still have two small drips. One is easy the other won't be too bad.  :o
Two friends's memorials on Saturday.  :(
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on January 23, 2020, 02:57:15 PM
 I just got blown out again!  ??? Try again: First three are a 25. The second set are of a 26. (Blue car)

Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on January 23, 2020, 05:09:05 PM
GABY...............those pictures should really help sixball get a visual idea of whats supposed to be there.

Especially like 1 st pic with wood seat back and wood slat bottom.  Looking at the metal seat frame, I have been looking at something just like that on ebay guy says for 34-35 chev truck..........its 42" wide ??? and 24 long sides ?? with going from 5" high ? to 3 1/2 tall in rear. 

Part is only $20 + ship and think its in your area.  Could be cut in half to right width and welded back up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Chevrolet-Seat-Pan-mounting-frame/164042672152?hash=item2631b48818:g:tSYAAOSwCL9d~-rT



Now have to find it again.

mike
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 23, 2020, 09:11:26 PM
There is a thin metal piece that fits around the front and sides of the seat frame.I did't take pictures of the seat wood that I have but it is not near as much as in the '25 picture. It will be a few more days before I can get there to do anything. 
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 28, 2020, 09:22:25 PM
A friend was killed in a freak accident on his way home from the bar Sunday night. I went down this morning to check on his lady, who is a former student of mine. Sad deal and senseless.

I stopped by the roadster on the way home mostly to pick up more stuff to bring back to work on. I checked out some wood Ideas and see a way forward. I decided to use other pistons that I have and not butcher the nice forged Ross custom pistons. It won't noticeably effect the engine and I can use the Rosses in another block to build a hotter engine later. I really don't know if it's worth have a badly scattered hot rod project. Once we sell get into the chassis it'll pay off, I hope.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sammons on January 29, 2020, 05:30:41 PM
Sorry about your friend, and other friends lately.  It seems to be happening a lot anymore the older we get, and even some younger folks.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: chopper526 on January 29, 2020, 07:02:19 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your friend, Sixball.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 29, 2020, 11:59:44 PM
Thanks, He made a bad choice and several peoples lives will never be the same. Thankfully he was the only one injured.

I didn't get any real work done on the car today. Just a little parts cleaning and a couple of planning issues modified. Maybe something tomorrow.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on January 31, 2020, 04:54:54 PM
I've spent quite a bit of time in the last coupe of days going back through this thread and my build thread on the HAMB. Just reading a lot of this again and looking at the pictures clears things up a lot. I'm still trying to drag my band saw out from the back of the machine shed and find out what's wrong with my table saw. I'm gathering wood to use in making patterns. Just regular old lumber a this point. In fact some is OLD lumber. I realized I'm making some of this too hard. Looking at it one piece at a time there are some really simple pieces and only a few are really complicated. Their relationship is the tough part. When I get my tools set up I'm ready to jump in. The worst that can happen is that I end up with a lot of small pieces of firewood before I end up with a Chevy.  ;D
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on January 31, 2020, 07:41:46 PM
That's the way to think of it! Yu gota stay warm! Besides practice will get you reacquainted with your tools. Sometimes you just cannot do some cut the way that you thought. Sometimes you get an idea and it works out easier than expected!
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: 62131 on January 31, 2020, 07:43:13 PM
Sixball Sorry for the loss of your friend
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 01, 2020, 01:23:22 AM
GG2, I'm trying to get the things zinging around in my head turned into something that moves the car along. I got the band saw out today and ordered some new wheel tires for it and am looking for some blades. It is so old Black & Decker doesn't have any parts. I have to go back to see what tooth count blade Mike said to use I think it was 10 to 12.  Do you know what the widest part if the main sill measures across? Is a 2x6 wide enough? Mine are down the hill.

62131, Thanks, We're dropping like bar flies.  ::) When I got up this morning I thought that this June I will have slept for 25 years!  :o Rip Van Sixball.  8)

I found it on page 3. Mike said 8 to 10 TPI for the blade.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on February 01, 2020, 11:43:12 AM
Six Ball the widest on the sills is just under 5". Thickness 1 3/4". (corrected...do to idiotic mistake)

I'll have to check the tooth count that I am 'trying to use'. I tried to block out the left and right belt rails (patterns) day before yesterday. The first one went OK, but the second one went bad. Kept losing my blade, and the bottom of the blade was wondering way off. (1/2") It was dark enough under the table that I could not see what was wrong, but I'll bet that it broke the bottom blade guide. I broke the top guide a few months ago trying to block out some aluminum, replaced it with an 'improved roller guide'. We having fun yet? ;D
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 01, 2020, 01:05:12 PM
GG2, Thanks. So I'll start with a 2x6 and see where it takes me. Aluminum is too tempting to use our wood tools on. :o
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on February 01, 2020, 04:00:47 PM
You can use more teeth per inch if you like ( fine ), up to you.  If the wood has moisture and not dry might tend to gum up the teeth.  I use my machine with 6-8 teeth to cut aluminum as it tends to clog up if finer is used.
 Fine 12-18 teeth does nice clean job also.  My home 9" band saw I have an assortment of blades in stock.  Find a seller on ebay that has what you need and generally quantity is available.

Problem with old band saw machines is the parts..  usually drive belts are not available and more. Went to visit a friend today and he was trashing his broken 9" because parts are not available any longer.  Funny thing is these small machines use a variety of different length blades that only fit that brand of machine.

I was just in harbor freight Wednesday , I think they have machines, I was not looking for one.  Prices from them are dirt cheap.  Well turns out $129 and if you have a coupon its less

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hmKX1njZjc

mike lynch
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 01, 2020, 08:31:21 PM
The blade in mine now is 8 TPI. It is a tiny 1/8 " blade 56 1/8 long. It is an old 10"  Black & Decker with 3 wheels and no parts available. It would probably handle a 1/4" blade. I did find urethane tires for it and blades are available. It has nothing over the Harbor freight. I got it in the late 80s or early 90s and got a matching table saw at the same time. I have the book for the B&D table saw and the Harbor Freight one I have now and they are the same. These are all the newer throwaway machines from that time. I can't find parts for any of them. I did see a used motor for the table saw for $100 + shipping on eBay but for $144 I can get a whole new saw.  I have an older table saw and a jig saw I got from my grandad and I can find parts for both of those because of the component nature of their construction. As long as the basic housing hold up I can fix them.
I have no problem with Harbor Freight it not like I'm trying to make a living with their tools and I really think a lot of them have gotten better over the years.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: EDNY on February 01, 2020, 09:40:07 PM
A few years ago I converted a band saw my buddy was throwing out to use a treadmill motor....to make a long story short I haven't used it for a couple years now and just don't need it.  If it or it's parts can help any of you folks...let me know...just collecting dust right now.


Here is a video I did back in 2012 of the band saw conversion. The band saw in the video is the one I want gone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1wLX_l_OdQ
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on February 01, 2020, 10:17:16 PM
Its easier to control a wide blade than a scroll type thing blade, especially when making a long cut.  Let the sharp blade do the work, don't push hard on the wood, especially a hard wood........sharp blade and steady.
A belt sander is really helpful to have to clean up the band saw cut.

  Home depot markets the RIGID brand of tools.  A really neat tool to have is their oscillating belt sander that goes up and down and lays flat on its side.  Pull that off and it also takes an assortment of DRUM SANDER ROLLS that also oscillate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69FrqxgXJyI



Looking on kijiji , lawn garage sales or any other place where used or gently used tools can be found.  Pawn shop ?  You will be doing enough woodwork to justify owning it.  Works great on metals also.

mike lynch       HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 02, 2020, 11:42:33 AM
EDNY, that is interesting. I was talking to my son about treadmill motors yesterday. I had no idea it was so easy. They sound like a very good solution to my power issues here. I wish your gaby saw was closer. I[t probably cost prohibitive to send it all the way across the country.

Mike I see the skinny blade control problem. I have access to lots of other tools but like working at home. I have a 6"x48" belt and 12" disc sander that I use a lot. If it was horizontal it would be better for this project. There are lots of used tools in this area. It seems like yard and estate sales are full of them.

Lots to think about. Work on tools so I can work on the car.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on February 04, 2020, 08:27:57 PM
I am watching FANTOMWORKS TV show.   "Against the grain "  broadcast 12-12-2018 58 episode 11

Doing a 51 ford wood and showing how to layer wood strips to create a form shape.  Interesting

mike lynch
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 05, 2020, 01:00:00 AM
I had a '51 Ford woody. It is one I wish I had kept.
I ordered some new band saw blades  and a few more clamps. I took my table saw apart and the motor is toast. The latest version of it is on sale at Harbor Freight for $115. I'll pick one up on my next trip to town.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: chopper526 on February 05, 2020, 08:51:09 AM
I am watching FANTOMWORKS TV show.   "Against the grain "  broadcast 12-12-2018 58 episode 11

Doing a 51 ford wood and showing how to layer wood strips to create a form shape.  Interesting

mike lynch

A great episode because it did show something a little different.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on February 05, 2020, 10:49:41 AM
BITCHIN RIDES,  also has a woodie you see in the background, might be some wood learning stuff going to happen there also.  The woodie looks like a 39-40 by the hood top. Its under plastic cover most of the time.  So as they work on it and film it, will all get collected to an individual show .

I am looking forward to it and hoping to learn more.

Just before I got my 35 Chevrolet phaeton, I had been chasing a 1932 ford woodie wagon but the price was way above what I wanted to pay.   Price finally dropped to what I was prepared to pay but somebody from Pittsburg area snapped it up.   

 It also had some issues like a fixed in place windshield, side glass in the doors which required wetting finger tips and pushing up on the glass so you could reach the door handle inside .  Early pre 1935 woodies used canvas side windows with snap fasteners to hold them in place.

Please accept my apologies for posting pics of " that other hot rod make"

mike lynch ...   HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 05, 2020, 05:18:09 PM
Beside the '51 Ford I for a short time had two different '40 Ford woodys. I sold one to a friend who tore it apart and sold it still in pieces, The one I had the longest was a Morris Minor Traveler. That was one fun little wagon. I didn't learn much about wood cars from any of them. The Morris was only a few years od when I got it.
 I just ordered some parts from Gary Wallace of Early Chevrolet Parts. He had some things I needed but didn't think I'd find. Mostly things that will add nice details to the roadster. He seems like a good guy and is busy. Good for him. He is in our source list but I first contacted him through a purchase on eBay.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on February 05, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Six Ball next time that you are around your wood and have some time, would you check out the rabbit(s)(for the floorboards) on the main sill? I have the location of the rabbits on a 25, but do not think that they are the same for the 26. The front of the first rabbit has to be the same, but I would like to get the dimension to the trailing end, say from the rear of the B pillar along the straight side of the sill. Also, if there is a second rabbit, where does it start and end.
Also, could you get accurate dimensions of the rear sill below the trunk? I got the truck out of the hospital yesterday, so while I was in Walla Walla, I picked up more ash lumber. I am starting to plan out my cuts and start gluing. Thanks!
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 05, 2020, 10:53:40 PM
I'm trying to get down there Friday. I need to make a lot of measurements and buy some wood for patterns. These rabbits start at the front of the sill where the metal floor brace meets the sill? It starts with a curved cut? I didn't know what it was for.
I have a new thought about how to get the frame to follow the body line and need to run it by the welder. I also need to make some drawings with measurements. I have about as much now as my head will hold.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on February 06, 2020, 11:42:26 AM
I understand! I can wait, do some other stuff that needs done. I've got the body part of the trunk hinges cut out, and need to build a jig for welding the pivot boss on. Also have to figure out how to make the slot in the hinge pivot screw when I get to making them.

Like you said, start a list (put everything on it, no matter how small) and start marking them off... Makes you realize that you are getting things done! Also, a list lets you get a few of those items out of your brain. My wife gets projects that start to over whelm her....I tell her 'you can move a mountain with a spoon!'. Concentrate on the spoon, not the mountain. It seems to help her! Good Luck!
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 06, 2020, 12:53:21 PM
Good thoughts. As you can tell by now organization is not my strong point. Ass sitting is my forte.  ::)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on February 06, 2020, 02:30:52 PM
I'm trying to get down there Friday. I need to make a lot of measurements and buy some wood for patterns. These rabbits start at the front of the sill where the metal floor brace meets the sill? It starts with a curved cut? I didn't know what it was for.
I have a new thought about how to get the frame to follow the body line and need to run it by the welder. I also need to make some drawings with measurements. I have about as much now as my head will hold.

Pictures make it much easier to try to understand what your talking about.  I think your referring to the rabbit cuts in the wood sills on the inside towards the trans.  Using my 34-35 chev wood sills as an example.
The cowl inside has foot angle RISER metal panels, that give the front floor to firewall its comfortable angle.  Those stamped metal panels in my parts will hold 1/2" thick floor wood going across and same at the top area where it fits into the inside firewall.

Now what happens is the sills also have that dropped down 1/2" rabbit slots that taper from inside the firewall , down the RISER to the sills, where they taper down to zero to match the wood floor.  Normally they end at the UNDER THE SEAT METAL TRAY that goes across.

That's the purpose of the sill rabbits.  DAMN I had pictures posted of all this either on this site or the termites..

Now all that beautiful cherry wood I cut and fit will not work because the cut wood was meant for a flat floor with 700R4 trans, not the tremec 6 speed stick which is going to require a custom made walnut consul to hide the beast of a trans.  Will still have the cherry floor but will not go side to side.  I have some 1 1/2" wide by 1" tall ash I will fasten to the former reconfigured X member for the cherry to rest on.

Other than all that I have finished the lecarra aluminum center 9 bolt wheel with alder wood.  Sanded it and refinished with 7 coats of Epifanes varnish.  Sanded the aluminum with 400 water paper and will dig out some 600---800--1000 ---1500 to eliminate all scratches.  No polishing, just a nice satin aluminum look.

Custom air cleaners, 7 blade mopar fan, firewall plate, master cylinder remote fill on firewall, side air blockers for beside the radiator to stop air getting by rather forced thru radiator.

The Grant old 70's flat wheel I converted to lecarra 9 bolt style , the metal is getting a special colour and the walnut wood is all refinished in Epifanes varnish and will be installed using the special aluminum screw together rivets on the Phaeton.

mike lynch............HAIRBALL





Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 06, 2020, 05:58:24 PM
Yes Mike that is a good description of the rabbits in the sill. Some of that is in the piece I don't have butI have the sections  before and after and It's just a few inches long. I'll try to get pictures tomorrow.

Wow Mike, You are making a lot of progress. Glad you will be able to use the Cherry floors with some modifications.

I am going to try to use the stock wood steering wheel I have but size and clearance may nix that. I got the band saw cleaned up today and the new tires on the three wheels. I'll pick up the new blades when I'm out tomorrow. I cleaned the new pistons and removed the pins so I can balance them. The guy who is assembling the engine is getting antsy. I'm not being a good feeder line for these guys. I don't know what they expected. If I can't keep myself busy how can I keep all 3 of us busy. Then there's my son and the cabinet maker.  ;D
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on February 07, 2020, 05:39:39 PM
okay finally found a picture of the sill plate..........its drivers side.  Note the 1/2" wide slot running from nothing to about 1/2" deep.

The angled part at the front the floor boards sit on this......there is a sheet metal stamped plate 3" wide that angles from the foot rest area back. Sits same height as the angled piece.  This system they designed gets the wood to slope back to the UNDER THE SEAT tool tray the floor attaches too.  DAMN wheres those pictures I had this all assembled before.  It was all so clear , even I understood what they were doing. 

 The 1 1/2 " wide piece about 15--18" long standing upright is actually the seat base riser.  Seat does not move so this is screwed down to the sill from below.  Took them off.  I still have the 3 piece set of Brazilian walnut it was made of.

A lot of this stuff only makes sense because I have had my coupe and inspected all this from an original setup untouched by prior owner or  me.

It makes sense that these designs would go back to earlier years and be similar.
mike
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 09, 2020, 01:52:39 PM
Your sills look more complicated than mine. I got some pictures Friday that show some wood metal fit and how a couple of the cuts are made to allow it all to happen. A lot is not as precise as I had thought. Precise in relation to yesterday's mill setup to drill new pressure plate holes in a flywheel.

Beginning of floorboard rabbit right sill. Two holes to right of clamp are where metal brace for front floor kicks up to firewall.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0279-jpg.4570112/)
Another of same area, tape starts at front of sill. Hole to left of clamp is first body mount hole.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0283-jpg.4570115/)
End of floorboard rabbit. The rest is for seat frame I think. Hole is #2 body mount.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0278-jpg.4570111/)
Showing missing sill piece beginning in cowl foot on left and going to where metal door sill ends on wood main sill. New wood strip is nailed in place to locate the two pieces from inside straight line on sill.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0280-jpg.4570113/)
Another shot of end of floor rabbit measured from front of sill.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0282-jpg.4570114/)
Fitting quarter to bottom if sill.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0273-jpg.4570116/)
Back metal piece and quarter looking tight. Quarter not braced straight up.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0275-jpg.4570118/)
Inside quarter in trunk. Cut in top of sill fits around wheel well area. Holes are #3 & #4 body mounts
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0276-jpg.4570119/)
Closer look, nice fit. Notch is for vertical wood brace that connects to long S piece in top of Quarter.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0277-jpg.4570120/)
Across large trunk area. With trunk lid removed these made small pickups. That may be the reason for the change between '25 & '26. There was an after market bed available.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0284-jpg.4570121/)
From the outside.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0287-jpg.4570123/)
The metal piece that runs around the front of the set. There is still a small piece of wood screwed to it.
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0285-jpg.4570122/)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on February 09, 2020, 04:38:01 PM
its all starting to make sense to you now, that you can see all the pieces put into place.  Helps me understand what it is you have.

The rabbit in the sill up front , the floor wood sits in that and slowly rises up to meet the foot rest angle, there might be a missing piece on the sill itself,  that would raise it up the last 6" or so ???

If you have access to a surface planer, be interesting to run those floor boards thru and also a jointer to make perfect matching edges.   You could use a biscuit joiner saw or  doweled to pull a bunch together with glue.  That original floor may be savable ???   and great conversation piece. 

If you could find some more old boards laying around and be able to included them in your build, that would be neat.    Sounds like character to me !!!!!!!!

mike......................HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 09, 2020, 06:30:43 PM
Mike, I'm glad to hear you talking like that. I have tons, literally, of noce old wood and I think floor boards would be  good use for some of it. I used a lot of old wood when we built our house and i saved all the old siding from our little Tahoe cabin when we remodeled it a few years ago. I is all at least as old as the car. It is not hard wood but I think it would work on the floors fine. I also have some oak flooring I pulled out of my wife's grandfathers home before it was demolished. I can get my cabinet maker friend to plane whatever I need.
You are also right about it starting to make sense. Seeing the relationship of the pieces both wood and metal to each other is a great help. When I first saw this body it was together but in sad shape. By the time I got it it had been roughly taken apart and moved a few times. I'm lucky there is as much as there is.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 10, 2020, 07:32:38 PM
Sammons I saw what you said on the other thread and I agree. It's a big task but somehow it gives me more places to make progress.

Today I got the band saw dialed in. The new blade and the new urethane tires wouldn't track. I quit in disgust last night. I tried something new. I read the manual for the saw.  :o  It needed more adjustment because the new tires have no crown of their own and I think the wider blade played a part too. It is a 3/8" with 6 TPI. I'm still looking for a 10-12 TPI. I have a 1/2" 14 TPI but don't know if I could get that one to track. It would have an issue with the guides. I got the saw working today and made a few cuts on some scrap wood. I'm pleased with the little saw. I think it will do fine. I need some practice and knowledge. I had a hard time seeing the pencil line on the old wood. I'll use cleaner wood and put more light by the saw. I ordered the Fisher Chevrolet body book Mike mentioned a while back. There should be good info in it even though Fisher didn't make the open car bodies. A lot will be the same.

My son and I are also drilling and tapping a new flywheel for a 10" clutch and pressure plate. I don't think my adapter will clear and 11". I don't need that much clutch or weight. We spent most of Saturday measuring and deciding which route to take. Maybe the mill and his rotary table. We can at least measure to 0.00001" that way. Whether we can drill and tap to that remains to be seen. I'm doubtful but I also doubt the wheel is that close. We'll check it. He had to got back to SoCal for work today so we'll do that when he gets back.

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0295-jpg.4573185/)
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0293-jpg.4573187/)
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0293-jpg.4573187/)
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0289-jpg.4573188/)
(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0292-jpg.4573190/)




Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on February 10, 2020, 08:00:20 PM
my saw has one of those RED LASER LINES that project onto the wood to keep it straight.  Even then its really difficult to see and sometimes I use close-up special model building reading glasses.

I also use a small light in a flexible shaft to be able to position the light perfectly.  Brightness outside light and other factors make seeing difficult.  It gets more diff when the saw up and down head is down almost right on top of the wood .  Blocks the view. 

Keeping sharp mentally is important and let the blade cut the wood, do not force it.   That old wood , blade should zip right thru, new hardwood is more difficult .

If you need to use steel ruler to make sharp pointed sharpie pen lines , helps in seeing what you doing.

Found some pictures of a undergoing resto in Mass for the interior, altho for a 34-35 roadster, what you can see helps understand where your heading.  Note gentle slope of floor board that fits into the sill rabbit.

mike lynch..........HAIRBALL
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 10, 2020, 11:35:28 PM
Good tips on the saw. I have a couple of adjustable lights that will work. The laser sounds interesting.
I'm starting to see the similarities of how these things go together, Thanks for the pictures.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: grumpy gaby 2 on February 13, 2020, 08:34:55 PM
I changed my bandsaw blade today...Think that I know what was wrong. Just pulled the old one of with my hands, went to put the new one on and had to really watch that I did not red on things. Boy was it sharp!

Got it on and guides adjusted, quite a feat for the second day after cataract surgery. Not going to try that again! I have forgotten how tight to make the blade, so went looking for my manual, and you know how that works.....couldn't find it. BUT, I found the pics of Ray Hollands 1925 roadster wood that I had borrowed to make patterns. I will try to put them up. Will probably have to come back to put discriptions on them.



Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 14, 2020, 02:27:57 AM
A sharp tool is a wonderful thing. My instructions for my little Black & Decker said to remove the plate in the table where the blade passes through, raise the guide all the way up, and tighten the blade until you can't push it sideways to touch the table. That may be right for a 1/8" or 1/4" blade but with the 3'8 on mine it was too tight. It doesn't slip, it stays on, and cuts straight. I think it was putting too much stress on the bearings.  I know it felt like it was near stripping the threads in the adjuster.
When I post pictures on the HAMB and here I put them there first. I can load them directly from my desktop there  buy drag and drop and I can load them by draggling them from the HAMB post to here by dragging them to the brackets here. Captions on the pictures would help but it can take a lot of time to get them in the right place.
I see some there that is like mine and some that's different I think. I see some I don't recognize. The floor, seat, and seat back is still hard for me to figure out. Quite a bit of mine is missing. More than I first thought. I still have a place I need to search.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 19, 2020, 05:13:01 PM
I got the wood woking bench uncovered yesterday so there is a place to work. Now I have to bring some pieces back up here and get started.
The book on Fisher Body repair that Mike recommended arrived today and I am learning a lot. Though the open car bodies were not made by Fisher the general knowledge needed is the same. The illustrations and text is of far better quality than these reproduction manuals tend to be. It's well worth the price. Each page has watermarks so I don't think I can post any of it here, don't know those rules. But I can give a rundown of what I'm doing as I go. Only a couple of pages into it but I'm noticing differences. As I go I may make a few changes that I feel will make my project better. Mike, Thanks for telling me to get this.

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0296-jpg.4581397/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/s-l225-jpg.4582357/?temp_hash=5b25f215801faff99c26a32bc4317835)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: madmike3435 on February 19, 2020, 06:16:24 PM
Main thing is the book is covering the era your working in..........1926---1930.

There is always info that can be used , its a chance to see what might have been used in that era.

FISHER BODY.  not foster.   

 I do not know , nor have I looked into it if the open cars of that earlier era prior too 1929 were made by the outside source because the open cars were a very substantial part of the production.

Will do some poking around and see what I can dig up.

mike
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sammons on February 19, 2020, 06:39:47 PM
Thats a nice bench Sixball!  Those manuals can be a real help. I learned years back, if I got a project car that was already apart, get an assembly manual. Nothing worse that scratching your head wondering what goes where and if you even have that piece.

You'll be at it soon now. 👍
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 19, 2020, 08:11:50 PM
I went back and edited that last post. I fat fingered some of it. Fisher?/Foster being one thing. Actually that is some of the auto spell crap.
The early open cars were not Fisher. There is a lot of difference, at lest with what is shown. There are many more metal pieces. Probably in the later open cars too. But the guys repairing the closed cars were the same guys working on the open ones.

Yeah, the bench is cool and begging to be used. Maybe tomorrow I can play a little.  :)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 22, 2020, 06:12:15 PM
To quote one of my heroes , Sergeant Alvin York, "I ain't much for this practizin". I tend to jump in a screw a lot of expensive things up before I develop the skills I need. But I did a bit of what I can legamently call practice because it wasn't a finished car part. A few weeks ago some serious wind blew a porch rocker into the side of the house and broken of the rockers. So.... if I fix that I can call it practice for the car, right? It did in fact show the need for using hardwood, a drum sander, and better vision. I finished rocker repair yesterday and I finished bottling a total of 45 bottles of Prickly Pear wine today. There is now an official Plan B. :D The worst think that can happen here is that the rocker breaks again or I run out of wine before next fall. The friggin' Chevy should be a roller by then. Oh, I should say there was about 3/4 of a bottle of wine left and I had to decide what to do with it. :rolleyes: I don't know why the last photos are so blurry. :(

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0298-jpg.4585188/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0301-jpg.4585189/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0302-jpg.4585193/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0304-jpg.4585194/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0307-jpg.4585195/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0308-jpg.4585198/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0311-jpg.4585199/)

(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/100_0312-jpg.4585200/)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: chopper526 on February 22, 2020, 07:44:48 PM
Hone your skills on the rocker....transfer those skills to the car...But! No wine with the power tools :o
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on February 22, 2020, 09:00:09 PM
The wine can be a reward for when things go right or solace when the don't, but I drink Coke or Coffee in the shop. :)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: chopper526 on February 25, 2020, 07:17:00 PM
Good rule to follow, alcohol and tools don't mix well.
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on March 23, 2020, 02:29:28 PM
Still chipping way here, pun intended. The belts I received for my grandad's table saw were not the ones I ordered. I ordered 24" and got 95". I don't have that much adjustment.  ::)  I have figured out where all of the recognizable wood pieces I have go and how the connect to each other. I'm starting the search for wood. My cabinetmaker friend said Ash is available in Reno. I'll check when businesses reopen. He has also suggested Baltic Birch as a possibility for glue up for the sills which are the largest pieces I need. It is a special kind go plywood made in Europe mostly for furniture. It is much stronger, more stable, and very workable. It has great screw holding ability and does have exterior uses.

https://www.woodworkerssource.com/blog/woodworking-101/tips-tricks/your-ultimate-guide-to-baltic-birch-plywood-why-its-better-when-to-use-it/ (https://www.woodworkerssource.com/blog/woodworking-101/tips-tricks/your-ultimate-guide-to-baltic-birch-plywood-why-its-better-when-to-use-it/)
Title: Re: Sixball's Wood Works(a splinter group discussion)
Post by: sixball on April 03, 2020, 07:00:12 PM
I just got home with 3 sheets of Baltic Birch plywood. HEAVY stuff. I ordered one sheet each of 1",3/4", & 1/2" Tuesday. TH 1"&1/2" came yesterday and the 3/4" came this morning. My cabinetmaker friend got from one of his suppliers. These turned out to be full 4'X 8' sheets not the 5'x5' I read about on lune. We cut four 5" wide pieces from th 1" sheet and two from the 3/4" sheet and then cut the 1/2" sheet into two 4'X4' sheets. I still had a hard time with the rest of the 1' & 1/2" sheets. I did not see a single flaw or gap in the wood in any of the cuts we made. This kind of splits the wood approach between original and replacing with steel. A major positive for me is that solid old Chevy door closing sound. The thicknesses are really metric and not quite fractional detentions. A 1" with a '3/4" is really 1 5/8". A 1" and a 1" is really 1 7/8". So I'll glue up the four 1"x 5" x 8' to make the sills from. I'll also look onto making them full length and building in the kickup,

The new pressure washer pump is here so blaster test will resume. Still waiting on some table saw parts but some are here. Somehow my clean workplace disappeared again. If I can just get some time I'll get back on this, OH yea I forgot, I can't use that excuse anymore.  :o

My camera is not working but I'll get some pictures soon.
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