Rusty Bowtie

General Category => General Discussion - Intros => Topic started by: Rattiac on July 16, 2017, 06:14:13 PM

Title: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on July 16, 2017, 06:14:13 PM
What size electric fans are you guy's running ?

It's time my car gets an auxiliary electric fan to help out the mechanical unit.

I think I can put a 10- 12" fan in front of my radiator. It would have to be low profile but it should fit.
Also what cfm are yours ?

This will be a winter project.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: themoose on July 16, 2017, 06:45:15 PM
I'm using a Spal 12 inch 1328 CFM puller with no mechanical unit because of space limitations. It's a bit noisy but it keeps things cool. You can barely see it in the engine shot below

(https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/spu-ix-30101522_xl.jpg?rep=False)(https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/media/engine.221800/full?d=1399644025)
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: ChevRon on July 16, 2017, 07:48:59 PM
  Cooling Components is what I use. Very reliable and much quieter than others. Have installed many of these after trying everything else on the market. Ron
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: 62131 on July 16, 2017, 09:46:37 PM
I'm running Spal 16" fans on both the 38 and the 32.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Senior31 on July 17, 2017, 12:14:46 PM
Cooling Components is the only fan I would recommend.  Just like ChevRon I have used many of them and have never been disappointed.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: EDNY on July 17, 2017, 04:28:01 PM
On my son's 37 Chevy with LT1 we installed a Derale 18217 a 17" pusher, two speed.  On my 33 Chevy I used a Ford Taurus two speed puller - supposed to be one of the most efficient factory fans.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on May 27, 2018, 09:25:38 PM
After some careful measurements. I ordered a Spal 11" pusher fan 808cfm and also some new steel trans cooler lines.
It was a toss up between a 10 and 12" fan. So I compromised.

I also need to re mount my radiator.
How do you guys mount yours (solid OR float)?

I 've heard of some cracking their radiators. Not sure how that happens. Any help would be great.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on May 28, 2018, 02:15:11 PM
Found this little bit of cool info. Gives measurements on most electric fan's.

http://www.absoluteradiator.com/FanStore.asp


.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: 62131 on May 28, 2018, 09:24:31 PM
After some careful measurements. I ordered a Spal 11" pusher fan 808cfm and also some new steel trans cooler lines.
It was a toss up between a 10 and 12" fan. So I compromised.

I also need to re mount my radiator.
How do you guys mount yours (solid OR float)?

I 've heard of some cracking their radiators. Not sure how that happens. Any help would be great.

I made two u shaped mounts for the bottom and one for each side and used rubber to cradle my radiator
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: madmike3434 on May 29, 2018, 02:24:08 AM
What size electric fans are you guy's running ?

It's time my car gets an auxiliary electric fan to help out the mechanical unit.

I think I can put a 10- 12" fan in front of my radiator. It would have to be low profile but it should fit.
Also what cfm are yours ?

This will be a winter project.

Why would you need an electric fan in front of the radiator if you have a steel 6 blade fan from Derale that has a big pitch to the blades.  These fans do not flex and draw a lot of air thru the radiator.  They come in 13" to 18".   These are not the throw in trash can flex racing fans that do not work for street rods.   These are priced below $50

 The test for your existing fan is can it hold a cloth diaper size 24 x 24 cloth in front of the radiator grill running at idle ? 650--700 rpm.  If the answer is no, trash it.

mike lynch
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on May 29, 2018, 02:13:43 PM
Just needed to have some help in stop and go traffic. That's where it heats up.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: madmike3434 on May 29, 2018, 06:59:23 PM
take the test as described above.

 Fire car up and let idle 650--750 rpm, place 2ft  x 2ft cloth diaper or pillow case and place it in front of grill starting at one foot away and slowly move towards grill/radiator.  If the air grabs it and sucks it to the grill and holds it there, you got a fan that works especially in stop and go traffic.

If not your fan doesn't draw well enough then you found the problem.  If you have stamped louvers in the top of your hood, the Derale fan 6 blade will straighten your cloth out and it will flap like a flag.

For our 33--35 chevys we need a radiator that's 2--2 1/2"  thick core.

If your SBC is slung low in the frame and only half of the fan or less is covering the radiator this can also cause a problem.  This is why somebody developed the SBC water pump riser casting, my motor is high enough at 12" to the cross member measured at the center of the water pump .

Since a guy gave me a Chrysler steel fan 16" used in dodge dart with 383 NON clutch back in the late 70's and I filed the holes to slots, have never had a problem with overheating since.

I drilled the 4 fan mounting bolts allen head , drilled the head and safety wired the bolts.  If your running a corvette water pump with the 3/4" heavy duty snout, fan mounting hole will have to be opened up .

mike lynch
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: chopper526 on May 30, 2018, 09:05:22 AM
Not sure where your engine sits Rattiac, but like madmike said, my 350 sits a little low in the frame. So, I used the zip riser to raise the water pump/fan. I am using a 17" steel fan and a semi-circular fan shroud. I have never gone above 180. That being said, I also have an open engine compartment, and for what it's worth, added "wetter water"........just like to cover all the bases. ;D
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on May 31, 2018, 03:01:25 PM
I'll give that test a shot this weekend, once I unburry the car from the back wall of the shop. :o
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: EDNY on June 02, 2018, 07:33:45 AM
Wish I could find that article again but it discussed fan blade placement in a shroud. Standing at the side of the car the "factory" wide blades stick half way out and the other half remains inside the shroud. You'll notice that when the car is running the hot air is pushed sideways to where you are standing!  To far back or forward the hot air is pushed toward the engine.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 02, 2018, 07:27:01 PM


I made two u shaped mounts for the bottom and one for each side and used rubber to cradle my radiator

Just what I needed,  any pics ?

Im thinking of a new bottom mount (my foam blocks didn't hold up over time) and put an aluminum "L" bracket on each side with camper tape to cradle the sides.

My fan arrived today and my measurements were right on.




Woops I somehow just quoted myself. Ha ha.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: madmike3434 on June 02, 2018, 09:33:04 PM
I see the problem, its got a flex aluminum fan, huuuuuum, somebody was saying on here waste of $$$$

mike
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: EDNY on June 02, 2018, 09:45:24 PM
Just throwing this out as a FYI, I have a Taurus fan in my 33 and I know a couple of folks that are happy with them.  If you want to see a post go to hell check out this one on the HAMB.  Starts out as a great tech tip for the Ford Taurus fan, then the posting is stormed because the Taurus fan is post 1964, then turns into a discussion about radial tires etc.  (exactly why we started this forum).

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/ford-taurus-cooling-fan-wow.486504/
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: madmike3434 on June 03, 2018, 06:34:16 AM
I will not even go over there other than the chevy section.   The ford people get all anal about everything if its not pre whatever.

mike lynch
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: chopper526 on June 04, 2018, 06:08:19 PM


I made two u shaped mounts for the bottom and one for each side and used rubber to cradle my radiator

Just what I needed,  any pics ?

Im thinking of a new bottom mount (my foam blocks didn't hold up over time) and put an aluminum "L" bracket on each side with camper tape to cradle the sides.

My fan arrived today and my measurements were right on.




Woops I somehow just quoted myself. Ha ha.


Not saying this is the answer for you.....but. My fan sat in the same place as yours. I didn't want to run an electric fan, so I used a zip riser. You bolt a 6 cyl. water pump to it. Below are two pictures off the internet to give you an idea. You can mount the alternator to it. I cut the mounts of mine because I mounted the alternator on the bottom. Anyway, it centered my fan and, like I said, my car  doesn't go above 180. If you want, I can snap a couple pictures of mine tomorrow. Not trying to sway you (I don't have zip riser stock ;D) just another option.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 04, 2018, 07:48:39 PM
I asked if they have it available for my 3.8 V6,
I doubt it. ((( UPDATE-//////- not available)))
The 4.3 they do since it's a 350 minus 2 cylinders.

Already have the fan and electric is cheaper anyway. Haha, ha.  JK  ;D
Maybe I'll get to work on it soon. Getting too hot for yard work. 8)


Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: 62131 on June 07, 2018, 07:06:20 PM
Here's how I mounted my radiator in my shroud
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 11, 2018, 02:22:30 PM
Thanks for the pic.
These showed up today from eBay. Hopefully I can make em work. 8)
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: 39delux on June 11, 2018, 08:51:38 PM
I always use a 16" fan on my builds.  Find it to be effective for cooling, easy to mount and can be mounted slightly off center in case of engine/fan interference.  When mounting the fan I use a sheet of aluminum, cut a round hole for the fan and use bolts that will stay put on the shroud when mounting the fan.  This way, if necessary, the fan can be removed a bit easier.  Note on these pics that there is a strip on the bottom of the radiator that is not covered by a shroud.  I ran out of aluminum!  The LS engines are easier to cool so it doesn't make a big difference.  Over the years of driving street rods I've developed "temp gauge eye skew"  which means one eye on the gauge and the other eye out the window.  I got this offset years ago so there was no need to have the fan on auto.  Any time the temp starts to rise I turn the fan on!
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: ghost28 on June 11, 2018, 09:20:59 PM
Same thing 16 inch fans annd aluminum or steel fan shrouds
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: madmike3434 on June 12, 2018, 08:10:31 AM
question is , when the fan is running , will it hold a t shirt or cloth 2 x 2 ft square cloth too the grill ?????

mike
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 13, 2018, 12:20:53 AM
Did this tonight. It held a sheet but just barely.
I may open up the vents to see if it's any better.

Now I smell like car's. Gas is a few months old and stinky. :o
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: madmike3434 on June 13, 2018, 12:05:08 PM
RATTIC............the SIX blades on the steel or aluminum DERALE bladed fan have a larger pitch and draw significantly more air thru the grill then radiator.

Unlike an electric fan they do not have bearings to burn out, they are throw aways when broken or bearing worn out. Do not think anybody rebuilds them >?  My 91 cutlass had 2 fans, one was just under $400 and the other about $250.  Both went within 30 days of each other. 

Its important that the sides of the radiator inside the shell and the top area block off the air flow , so its forced thru the radiator.

If I could get a gm clutch fan like the 60--70's with 6 and 7 blades on the front of the engine I would run  one, sadly our 33--35 chevys do not have the room, so the Derale fans are perfect.

Happiness is driving your car in stop and go traffic without having to watch the temp gauge climb beyond 185.

mike
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 13, 2018, 09:24:47 PM
I think I have a old fan clutch from my Cherokee.
Might experiment with that one day. I know the fan has a lot of pitch to it.  8)

There's a 2" spacer on it right now.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: madmike3434 on June 14, 2018, 02:10:08 PM
you want 6 -7 blades with decent pitch to it.  My S10 has one from the factory, insanely noisy when you start the 4.3 up, makes a roaring sound.  Guy I knew had a 396 SS 70 nova with a seized clutch fan on it.  You could hear him coming off the lights 1/4 mile away from hamburger joint we hung out at, with sound of the fan.

I think I have a complete one off my 76 olds 455, but due to spacer built in cannot get it to work on a SBC  SWP too rad clearance.  They only lock up when temp spring inside says so, saving money on cost of gas.. these fans are heavy and take power to spin them.

mike lynch
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 16, 2018, 10:17:34 PM
Alright, here's my issue. Maybe y'all can chime in with some suggestions.

This would have been the lower mounts but I had to narrow it to fit.
My idea was to use these rubber bumpers but barely have room for the stud to point up (cutting it down quite a bit).

Plan B, was to have the stud go through the bottom and grind it down a bit.

What do you all think ???

BTW it's a walker model A for Chevy engine radiator.

Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: sammons on June 16, 2018, 10:50:22 PM
Rattiac, I confuse easy ;)    Is this what you were thinking?
Sorry, i have the shakes tonight.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 16, 2018, 11:11:03 PM
Yes, exactly.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: sammons on June 16, 2018, 11:18:54 PM
I would rather mount it solid to the radiator strap/suround(?) If room allowed, (bolt up) close to 1/4" clearance should be fine. Leave just enough bolt to get it above the nylock nut. Make sure put some locktite thread locker on also. Down fall there is nut back off and rub a hole in tank, (but slim chance)

Mounting it bolt down would probably be fine, but I always worry about rubbing a hole in bottom of bracket from dancing around. Again probably unlikey.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 17, 2018, 12:03:47 PM
Ended up pointing the stud down. Wasn't gonna fit pointing up.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: madmike3434 on June 17, 2018, 12:54:52 PM
Rattiac, I confuse easy ;)    Is this what you were thinking?
Sorry, i have the shakes tonight.

That illustration is very PICASOESQUE...........to the right one seems better choice of mounting.

mike
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 18, 2018, 12:08:30 AM
Well, the car is back together (minus hood) and managed to warm it up but.... couldn't get the fan to run.
No power to the (Gray) electric fan wire. Checking the fuse box and that was good.
Walked away after that.  >:(
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: sammons on June 18, 2018, 09:49:00 AM
Well, Fatnlow said he sent the Grimlens packing....maybe they moved out your way ;D
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: EDNY on June 18, 2018, 11:03:22 AM
Well, the car is back together (minus hood) and managed to warm it up but.... couldn't get the fan to run.
No power to the (Gray) electric fan wire. Checking the fuse box and that was good.
Walked away after that.  >:(

Using a relay? If so, no power until the relay is grounded via temperature sending (or manual switch).
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 18, 2018, 02:28:10 PM
Speedway said I need to check behind the fuse box for the no power issue and I'll have to wire up a relay.
For some reason I thought it had a relay already wired in the kit but I guess not.

Words cannot describe how much I hate relays. The car is grounded for a month OR at least until I feel like working on it.  >:(
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: 62131 on June 18, 2018, 07:33:02 PM
Wish I felt like working on mine   Just to blame hot   where'd did spring go :(
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: FATnLOW on June 18, 2018, 10:34:41 PM
Sent the Gremlins packing...got my problems lined out.....been working  just in the morning hours ...getting hot here...
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: EDNY on June 18, 2018, 10:57:51 PM
Here is a basic single speed fan set up...ignore the indicator light and toggle switch wiring (unless you want them)
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: EDNY on June 18, 2018, 11:10:24 PM
Here it is without toggle/light.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 19, 2018, 11:44:14 PM
Was able to check it out tonight. There's power at the fuse box and...... I was pretty sure it was already wired with a relay (correct me if im wrong)
. Just no power at the end of the fan wire.
OK im stumped. Here's some pics.
(Upper right I had the relay pulled)
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: EDNY on June 20, 2018, 06:38:24 AM
In a nutshell there will be no power to fan wire (#47) until wire (#71) is grounded via your engine temp switch, or a toggle switch.  To check it, with key on just ground wire (#71)...relay should then close and turn fan on via (#47).  In your picture you had a 20amp relay..you should have (2) 30amp relays one for horn and one for fan. Maybe the fan relay is missing and just needs to be plugged in?

From Speedway site:

Notes

Kit has two flashers for turn and hazard and they are the 2 prong style
30 amp fuse for heat/cool
Two 30 amp relays, one each for the horn and electric cooling fan
Horn and electric fan both have 20 amp fuses in dedicated circuits

Main harness is over 12 in length to satisfy most applications
Headlights are on a 30 amp fused circuit


Fan Instructions:


Front of vehicle connections
Run gray [47] to fan positive + wire. Run fan
ground wire- to chassis ground. Black (71) is fan
relay ground and routes to temperature sensor in
engine, toggle switch going to ground, or direct
to ground if you want fan to run continuous when
key is in run position.


Here is instructions Link:

https://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf/9106401712circuitwiringkitinstructions.pdf
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 20, 2018, 02:26:09 PM
Thank you so much. I knew I wasn't crazy .
I'll track down that ground under the dash tonight.
 8)
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 27, 2018, 12:02:05 AM
Fan is working. Should be hot enough for a test drive tomorrow.  :o 8)
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: FATnLOW on June 27, 2018, 11:35:11 AM
Thumbs up....  Good to get things done.....Now testing  of the fan
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: Rattiac on June 29, 2018, 07:36:47 PM
Somehow I pulled a muscle in my left hand Tuesday while doing a top on a Porsche. Could hardly squeeze it. Better today , gonna put the hood on in a few.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: munch on July 11, 2018, 12:47:50 PM
What CFM would you recommend for a 350/330 with plans to run A/C?  It would be a puller.
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: madmike3434 on July 11, 2018, 03:37:58 PM
talk to the experts on tech line at VINTAGE AIR, or talk to the DERALE fan people.  They sell both types.

Electric fans have armatures and bearings, both fail.  Steel or aluminum big pitch solid fans only thing goes wrong is belts.

If running air, your also trying to pull thru another radiator and that will cut down the air flow and make it much harder to cool.  The addition of a shroud will help immensely .

mike
Title: Re: Electric fans
Post by: munch on July 11, 2018, 04:49:33 PM
Thanks Mike