Rusty Bowtie
General Category => Other Manufacturer Discussion => Topic started by: sixball on October 28, 2014, 12:13:48 AM
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A few weeks ago I was given an another old engine and transmission. I later learned it is a 1919or 1920 Essex Model A. While researching to find out what it was I started thinking of yet another project.
Essex's first car were built in 1919 and until 1923 they used a 55 HP F head four cylinder. Ford Ts had 20 HP. In 1921 they made a 50 hour endurance run. They went a little more than 3,000 miles and averaged 60.7 mph. That is six Indy 500s back to back. They won the 1923 Pike's Peak race. The more I learn the more I like it.
I'd like to find some '19 to '23 Essex body parts and I need some engine stuff. I need a cap and rotor. a carb top plate, and a glass tube for the oil level indicator. It has been stored inside and turns freely. I'm sure it will run. Here are some pictures. The first 5 are my engine.
https://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/Essex4Cylinder03?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCIb72IPKqaCHRQ&feat=directlink (https://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/Essex4Cylinder03?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCIb72IPKqaCHRQ&feat=directlink)
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Sixball you come across some of the coolest stuff!
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I would suggest joining the HUDSON--ESSEX--TERRAPLANE CLUB .
There you will find other owners of that brand and should be able to acquire the parts you need. Not sure if they are online, but they used to produce a news letter with for sale and wanted in it
http://www.hetclub.org/. < link to club
mike lynch 8)
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Thanks guys. Yeah maybe Oddball fits better or Screwball. I am a forum member on the Hudson Essex Terraplane site but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest or Early Essex information. I'm learning a little bit. No real hurry I have a Chevy roadster to build first. 4 Essex Model As set cross country records in 1922. Two from New York heading west and two from San Francisco heading east averaged 4 days 21 hours 32 minutes. It was over the Lincoln Highway, 3,000+ miles of almost entirely dirt road. The won lots of races with the little 4 cylinder. They had lots of trouble with the new flathead six in 1924 and by 1928 they were on the way out.
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The six cylinder Essex motor was made FROM 1924--until 1931 and then they introduced the new TERRAPLANE in 1932.
Both of these cars were produced to compete in the cheaper car market dominated by ford and chevrolet.
An Essex has as much wood in the structure as our beloved chevy's .
mike 8)
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Looks like it could be alot of fun, and it's a cool, simple looking car, but geez Six(odd)ball good luck finding.....anything for it!
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I don't need much for the engine and the body can be pieces of anything. In fact I have most of what I need laying around. There is a guy near here who has a couple of warehouses full of really old parts. Some of the stuff I need are things I would probably change anyway. ;D
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Well sixball everyone cant own a 1932 furd roadster highboy or lowboy and who would want to I think your essex thing is unique then and a gain you could have one of these look closely now.Anyone out here in cyber space looking for 409 or 348 parts
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A lot of neat stuff there the '56 is the only one I am sure of.
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Sixball I know of a guy who found a Essex in a barn somewhere here in Ky. took it home pulled the drive train out and dropped in a SBC, If you would like I can talk with him the next time I see him and ask what he did with the old drive train. I know he's not going to do anything else to the body as he pressured washed it off and clear coated it.
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If it is a 1919 to 1923 I am interested. Those are the 4 cylinder years. Maybe even a few years later if he pulled the front suspension.Thanks!
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sixball............YOU HAVE TO KEEP PLACING WANTED ADS IN THE MONTHLY ---BI-MONTHLY---- QUARTERLY ---NEWSLETTER MAGAZINE 0F THE h e t CLUB.
The oldest 1914---1928 and down cars take a lot more searching to turn up parts. They are out there just keep following the leads you are given.
Always remember.........anybody who owns an old car has extra parts they have collected.
mike 8)
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Sixball, an 'ol boy here in town has a rock garden out frt of his house. He had an old Essex "expolded veiw" in it, chassis, and body kinda scattered out. City got on this damn clean up campaign and made him remove just the body. If I recall, it kinda looked model T'ish. I'll have to ask him what he done with it next time I see him, that was about 15 yrs ago though. Probably threw it away.
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I'd like a Radiator shell. They had adjustable vents to help control temp. A hood and cowl would be nice. On the early ones the vents are horizontal. Of course a frame front axle and springs would be nice but I have others I can use. A friend has offered an axle and I think another had a radiator shell. It's just beginning. :)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iSt0AjUuMhA/VFBPJ6Fm-SI/AAAAAAAAHpk/84rB_DLuWaA/s288/%2524_57.JPG)
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The next time I see him I will ask and see what he did with it.
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Shame you arnt closer to where I live. I know of most all the Hudson stuff in my area.
My old buddy More is selling his 23 Essex. Its pretty rough, and there would be lots of parts.
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Yep, It's not that the parts we need are so rare, it just that they are scattered all over the planet. :o
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Well sixball everyone cant own a 1932 furd roadster highboy or lowboy and who would want to I think your essex thing is unique then and a gain you could have one of these look closely now.Anyone out here in cyber space looking for 409 or 348 parts
What W block parts do you have?
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Ed all the parts that you need to make a great W engine alluminum headsw cranks cross flow intakes dual intakes the works Glen C Rarick up state Ny 12 miles west of rout 81 exit 49 ---315 658 2661 GRARICK@TWCNY.RR.COM
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I'm going to give ol Mo a rev up on getting his 23 back together.
Been hassling him for the last year to get it sorted.
I'll take pics and post em here to show you his car, if he let's me help him sort it.
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I'd like to see it. '23 was the last 4 cylinder. It's a little different from mine. I got a radiator shell and a distributer rotor. I have located a frame near here but have not been able to look at it yet. I think it is a rolling chassis. I don't know what year.
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I talked to More yesterday briefly.
He still has it, so I will get pics, just don't know when. I'd run him out to where its living, but last time I had him out in the hot rod, I went a little fast, and he won't ride in it any more. He's 73, and want to sell the Essex, but wants to much for it, and no ones buying. I keep trying to get him to let me put it back together. Probably be easier to sell.
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I'd like to see any pictures you can get. I still haven't been able to go see the frame yet. Now that the Holidays are past I can get down there. Next Saturday is our Inliners meeting maybe I can follow him home.
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sixball haw about this http://www.hudsonterraplane.com/tech/tech_index.htm vette59jdwl
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OK what about this
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Thanks! There was some engine stuff I had not seen before. I bought an original Delco ignition booklet on line and it shows that it was delivered on Dec. 26th but they must have put it in someone else's PO Box. No way to prove I didn't get it. The post office says I did. Is there such a thing a Obama Mail? ;D
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Glad to be of help SIXBALL
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I got the Delco Ignition booklet today. It must have gotten misplaced in the Christmas rush. It covers Delco ignition systems from 1912 to 1916. The Essex distributer has patent dates from 1912 to 1918 and seems to be pretty well covered. It is nor car specific and has no part numbers but has lots of information.
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Did anyone pick out that chevy D5 V8
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Sixball just for you.let it take about 4 minutes for it to download its slow then print it
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Thanks, Every little bit helps. I found a reprint of a parts book. It was more than I wanted to pay but that info doesn't seem to be easy to find. I looked closely at the point set up today and was glad to see that mine is like modern points. In the early style the lobe closed the points and the closed tension had to be set too. Some had one set of points powered by a mag and one set powered by the battery and coil. There is a lot to learn from this thing.
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Here's a great book on Hudson's.
Its by John A Conde, and while not containing a lot of tech, it is a must if you want to know Hudsons.
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Thought you might like to see my 28 Super Six. It has an F head, which means the inlet valves are in the head, exhaust valves are in the block. The carb on it is not OG, and just mocked up for fun. I'm looking for a Ford 300 carb for it. Gotter love the brass water pump. The brass thing in front of dizzy is the oil pump.
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My Essex is an F head. Strange that Hudsons at the time were flatheads and when Essex went to a six in 1924 they used a flathead that didn't work as well as the four. I didn't know that Hudson used an F head.
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Same with the Super Six, Hudson's, they dropped the F head for Flathead, but not sure when.
They say that the Super Six ran that smooth, you could balance a coin on its edge, on the rocker cover with engine running, and coin won't fall over.
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they started using the flathead design beginning in 1930 when they started building straight 8's.
Hudson had a flathead from 1914---1926.............the F head motor started in 1927 with one cylinder head design , then half way thru they modified the design and ran it thru the 1929 year.
Being the ex *gasket king* 1979---1990 , I know this stuff. Even sent a head gasket thru the USA state department for the late 1927--1929 motor , for a car that was in Katmandu Nepal, way up in the Himalayan mountains.
mike
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Essex, that was separate but owned by Hudson, began with the 4 cylinder F head in 1919. They used it through 1923 with some changes and went to a flathead 6 cylinder in 1924.
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Well, this week, come hell or high water, I was determined to get the pics of my buddy Mo's 23 Essex I'd said I'd get, so jacked it up for Friday.
We've enjoyed many sunny hot Summer weeks, but it shi#! itself on Thursday, and we even had tornado warnings for Friday, which was the day I planned to do it.
So Mo and I head out to his old home, he sold to his Grandson, where the Essex lives in the basement.
We get there in the pouring rain, and the basement is flooded. :(
Mo says, sorry, guess we can't get to the car for the pics, but I wasn't about to let a little water stop me, found a plank, put it from the bottom step to a dry bit of the floor, and got over to the car.
Its pretty rough, hell its really only a stripped down remains of what was once an old Essex, converted into a workers hut. Its got 30 Chev brake drums and wheels on it, and he has a 20 and 23 Essex spare engines sitting over by the far wall.
I use my camera, as its got a flash, and got plenty of pics.
Even took some of the original wheels, steering wheel, and other parts on shelves. There's even an Essex diff, that's had one side cut off, for use as a PTO for a tractor, Mo had collected years ago.
Woo hoo, finally got the pics, and figured I'd load em on puter at work last night, but by the time I was done at work, I just wanted to get home, so left that job for today.
I threw em on puter today, after customer left, and I couldn't load em, due to pop ups, and the damn things got a cold, I mean a virus! >:( :-[
So I'll throw em on my parents computer tomorrow, I hope, and get em up for you.
Warning, its not pretty, but its still cool. :-\
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It sounds interesting to me. There's a lot more there than what I have. I did find a distributer cap and one part of the controls that mounts on the steering wheel. Too bad his stuff is so far away. I'll most likely end up with a lot of mix and match parts.
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I'm thinking its a shame its to far away too, as Mo would like to sell it.
The engine in the chassis also has a later, more modern carb adapted to it, and tube shocks and coil springs on the diff, so its far from a complete stocker.
It dose have the original enamel badge on the rusty grill, that's pretty cool. The cowl for this car is tiny, I wonder how people could fit, I guess they were smaller back then, no fast food joints to get fat from, he he.
Its almost 9.30 Sunday morning here, so I'll go around to Moms after lunch to get pics uploaded, as they will be at church until then.
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I use my phone for most internet stuff, so thought I can give you some teaser shots by photographing the camera.
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Looking forward to the rest.
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It's sitting a flooded basement?
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Jeff ...Couldn't make out too much..Looking forward to seeing the real thing :D
Moose
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I can see just enough to know that it exactly the kind of pile of Essex pile I'd like to find closer to home. The cowl and dash look good. I wish it was in a dryer spot.
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Sorry, parents weren't home, and stopped at my Buddy's and asked to use his puter, and he said no! He's a little pissed at me, cause I didn't help him with his new concrete driveway. I ran a concrete gang nearly 30 years ago, and don't find concrete work very exciting anymore.
Will get em up, soon as possible.
Yes, basement had a foot of water at bottom of steps, but only the front of the Essex had water around it. Had to stand in an inch of water to get pics of stuff on shelf.
The original wire wheels on the shelf are trash, but he's kept it all.
My 28 Hudson, that will become a Speedster one day, came from same basement, Mo collected parts for that, over a 38 year period, but like the Essex, never did anything with it.
Here's where things get a little sad.
After 53 years of marriage, Mo's much loved wife passed away, and I met him not long after. I was looking at selling my Model A Truck project, so I could finance buying my 29 Hudson.
Met Mo at my wreaker Buddy's, and was showing them all a pic of the 29 I was planning on buying, when Mo pipes up saying, I've got one of those in my basement. I thought he was talking crap, but he organized at trip out for a look at it, a week or two later. I was impressed, here's two Hudson products, in a basement, in a small town, not far from my small town.
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Anyway, after Mo's wife had passed, he was a little lost, and tried selling the cars to his restorer mates. They came looked at the dirty rusty remains, tried to buy one or two parts for next to nothing, and when he refused to sell, unless they took whole cars, the restorers told him it was all junk, and not worth the small amount he was asking. This made him feel even worse, years of dreaming and collecting all the right parts, and these clowns trashed him.
He told me more than once, that he just didn't want to be around anymore.
Then I say, why don't we put your 28 together, and clean it up, or what was there anyway. He asks, would you like to buy it?, I'll sell it to you for a third of what I'm asking, then take pleasure in telling the restorers, that he'd sold it to a Hot Rodder. Well, by then I was angry with these restorers too, so I agreed, but as I had the 29 by then, I couldn't afford it right there n then.
Christmas was coming, and we figured out, that 3 of his Grandchildren were customers of mine. I had no idea, but its a small place here, so he said, would I do some work for the Grandkids, for their Christmas presents, from him, and that would pay for the 28. Deal done, and I picked it up with my Buddy's work truck with a Hiab.
I figured if Mo saw 38 years of collecting dirty rusty Hudson parts being cleaned up, put together, and looking like a car, he might perk up, and after 3 months, the spark was back in his eyes, and he'd come around to check progress, saying how he'd spent 38 years collecting parts, and how I'd done in 3 months, what he'd only had time to dream about. I tell ya, it sure felt good to see his face all lit up.
Well that was a couple of years back, and while he has some health issues, he a lot happier these days.
So for the last 12 months, I keep saying, let's throw this ol Essex together, and scrub it up. He gets a little funny, and dosent say anything, not sure why, he would sell it, but doesn't seem to want to as well. I don't want it, but would do the work just for the fun of it, and watching him getting excited about it. Even tried giving him another nudge when we were looking at it on Friday, but I only got silence. I'm not giving up, and if I talk him into it, I'd post pics here, for Sixball, and everyone else interested. It may happen, may not, time will tell.
Six ball, hope you didn't mind me telling this story, but these Hudson products can get under ya skin.
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That's a great story, thanks for sharing it. It sounds like he is better off with you as a friend. I think I'm a lot like him. I collect more parts than than I put together. So damn many pieces I don't have room to work. ;D
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Nice story. I agree you guys make good friends. As far as the guys that like them original, I am sure a few of them will have some nasty words for me about my Buick. Thank God I don't run in the same circle as most of them. Keep at him Kiwijeff it will make him young to have a project.
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Thanks Ghost, I'll try that line on him about it keeping him young.
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He needs to be reminded that the famous Hudson and Essex race cars were not stock and even at the Pebble Beach Concourse de Elegance there are classes for racers and hot rods. One of the things I like about my Inliners International club is the diversity. We share an interest in all kinds of inline engines no matter what they power. We all have other engines too. Some are serious restorers.
https://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/RappinToMinden2013?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKfu9OiyhsjqLQ&feat=directlink (https://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/RappinToMinden2013?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKfu9OiyhsjqLQ&feat=directlink)
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Hi everyone I have a 1927 Essex Radiator solid brass and good shape. It would cool a 4 cyl. If interested call 219-819-4604. Don Smith, Brook Indiana 47922
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Do you have some pictures and measurements? I'm not sure if the post '23 radiators will fit the early shells. I picked up a very nice cowl & windshield frame yesterday.
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Nice work with finding a cowl etc.
Sorry bout pics, I haven't forgotten, just been busy elsewhere.
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/Users/ericholman/Desktop/Jeffs Photos/2007-03-14 15.08.31.jpg
/Users/ericholman/Desktop/Jeffs Photos/2007-03-14 15.10.54.jpg
/Users/ericholman/Desktop/Jeffs Photos/2007-03-14 15.13.12.jpg
/Users/ericholman/Desktop/Jeffs Photos/2007-03-14 15.14.59.jpg
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Man this thing is kicking my ass.
Had some time to sort this today, but its not working.
I'll go and sort it tomorrow hopefully.
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Jeff we can't open the pics.
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Kiwifeff Vette59jdwl here Jeff My computer wants to know the program that created the picture I know its a j peg,Here is what you have to do .When you have typed out your script and you wish to upload pics you have to scroll down and select picture and select from where you have it colected then you have to click on that pic and let it upload then click on picture number two and do the same thing no more than four pic's per entry if you have seven or nine pics creat another post and post four pictures per post thanks wayner
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Thanks Wayner. I think I need to go through file and name the pics so I know what to click on. Parents have a different system, so I Gotter figure it out. Just Gotter get some time. There's quite a few pics.
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Outer necessity, I used phone can to snap pics off computer.
Damn, this ain't nice, so I'll outline what's happened.
Ol Mo had sold his old home, where the Essex resides in basement, to his 22 yr old Grandson.
Young bloke had a great job, laying fiberoptic cable in the city.
He had payed off some fast rice burner car, a Ducati motorcycle, and installed a log burner in his home.
Mo spoke to him on a recent Thursday, and he was very happy with his self. Things were going well for him.
By Tuesday next week, not well at all. His Mom found him, hung in the basement.
No one can figure out why... :(
Well the house went back to Mo.
So Mo decided to cut the Essex up, and sell to the scrapper.
He's angry, I get it, but thought I'd try and save the Essex, so he gave me until this Wednesday to find a buyer.
I have found one, and the Essex will be saved.
I'd add more, but I knew the young bloke too, and I'm finding it hard writing this.
Some pics I took off computer.
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Jeff...That's a sad story...Some things just defy explanation.
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Good save on the Essex,
but the young guys death begs the question, WHY
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I'm sorry to hear this, Jeff. My condolences to his family and you. Jim
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Best wishes to the affected family and friends.
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Thoughts and prayers for you and your friends family. Glad to see you were able to save the Essex.
Tom
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Jeff sorry to hear about the young man. My condolences to the family and everyone effected by this tragedy.
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I'm sorry for you and for the family of the young man. These things are beyond understanding. I went to a memorial yesterday for a friend who took his own life. He was older and not well so there is a little understanding but he left a mess for his son and wife and that is not right. Lots of people came. I wish he could have seen that. It's much worse when this stuff is about a young person with life ahead of them.
I'm glad the Essex was not also a victim of the tragedy.
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Well today the new caretaker arrived, and we loaded up the 23 and all the spare parts, and its all headed to its new home.
We had to put the two spare engines on a truck, as we couldn't fit it all on the truck n trailer.
Here's a few pics.
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Anyone notice its got Chevy wheels? ;)
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It rained most of the morning, but we didn't let that stop us.
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ALWAYS GOOD FOR SOMEBODY TO HAVE EXTRA PARTS TO KEEP THE ONE INTACT CAR RUNNING.
LOOKS LIKE THERE IS ENOUGH SPARES; MOTOR TRANS, FRAME , REAR END, WHEELS ECT TO CREATE A WHOLE OTHER CAR , LIKE A SPEEDSTER !!! JUST NEED A COWL SECTION, HOOD RAD + SHELL FOR GOOD BEGINNINGS.
THE 1918---1923 ESSEX ALL USED THE SAME 4 CYLINDER HEAD GASKET
MIKE LYNCH 8)
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I've never seen that many 4 cylinder Essex parts. What a cool stash. Those engines are all later with plugs on the exhaust side of head and timing chain rather than just gears but there are some parts I need to find there.