Rusty Bowtie
General Category => General Discussion - Intros => Topic started by: munch on September 26, 2015, 03:17:10 PM
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I began to replace the universal joints in the steering linkage talked about and I have play in the 1" DD shaft that comes out of the steering column. That must be contributing to the movement I feel in the steering wheel. Is it normal to have any play there.
It is supposedly a Flaming River column.
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Munch first of all there should be no play in the steering wheel.Unless it is a tilt or telescopic steering wheel. In that case you have something that has came loose in the mechanizem,Not a problem google how to fix tilt steering wheel and then when you put the pieces pack together use RED Loctite on the bolts that support the tilt. vette59jdwl
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MUNCH.........do you have an independent front suspension in your car. ???
I found that the rack and pinion steering I have on my coupe with Kugel IFS, that the rack moves back and forth on the mounting brackets , ever so slightly in the mounting slots in the cross member. You see it when car is sitting and steering wheel moves to take up slack.
In my case I have to drill out the rack to accommodate 1/2" allen bolts to fill the slack in the cross member.
Could be like you say the U joints on the shaft, but I find that unlikely ???
mike lynch
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Take another person with a pair of vice grips clamp them on the end of the steering column where the universal joint is and then try the move the steering wheel.see what becomes of that you are deffinetely going to have to find out where this play is coming from can not have one inch of play man that is way way way to much vette59jdwl
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What steering collumn do you have?
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If its a modern column then it is the collapsible style. Some GM columns have nylon buttons or inserts that take up the slack where the inner and outer sections of the slide mechanism come together and they will sometimes fail causing that sort of play. Also as mentioned below if its a tilt column then there is some sort of a U joint used where the assemble tilts that might be worn. Again using GM as an example , they had ball type joints with nylon inserts in the joint that sometimes failed and caused a noise and play. Only way to know for sure is to take it apart and check all of the components
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MUNCH.........do you have an independent front suspension in your car. ???
I found that the rack and pinion steering I have on my coupe with Kugel IFS, that the rack moves back and forth on the mounting brackets , ever so slightly in the mounting slots in the cross member. You see it when car is sitting and steering wheel moves to take up slack.
In my case I have to drill out the rack to accommodate 1/2" allen bolts to fill the slack in the cross member.
Could be like you say the U joints on the shaft, but I find that unlikely ??? Mike, I also have a Kugel IFS but it seems fine. I have the linkage apart and the 1"DD shaft at the bottom of the column clear. You can move it and feel the play.
mike lynch
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Take another person with a pair of vice grips clamp them on the end of the steering column where the universal joint is and then try the move the steering wheel.see what becomes of that you are deffinetely going to have to find out where this play is coming from can not have one inch of play man that is way way way to much vette59jdwl
No, no, it is a 1"DD shaft not 1" of play. The play is noticeable enough to make a noise.
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It is a Flaming River tilt GM style with gear selector. You also can notice the play in the tilt mechanism.
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Munch
Are you saying the solid shaft that is inserted inside the hollow Double D is loose?
Or is it loose between the Double D and steering wheel?
Ed
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Typical GM style tilt column have two places where play of noise can develop. One is at the tilt joint where there are nylon inserts in the joint assembly and the other is where the male and female portions of the column come together in a slip joint. The nylon can either ware or brake and cause the problem. I don't know of much else that could cause excessive play or noise in the column. Really a simple setup....
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Typical GM style tilt column have two places where play of noise can develop. One is at the tilt joint where there are nylon inserts in the joint assembly and the other is where the male and female portions of the column come together in a slip joint. The nylon can either ware or brake and cause the problem. I don't know of much else that could cause excessive play or noise in the column. Really a simple setup....
Moose....have seen those knuckle joints loosen up (on tilt columns only)....easy fix once you get the column torn down. Just tighten down the 3 or 4 retainer ring screws that secures the ball joint..then spend at least 45 minutes putting the column back together :'(
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MUNCH.........do you have an independent front suspension in your car. ???
I found that the rack and pinion steering I have on my coupe with Kugel IFS, that the rack moves back and forth on the mounting brackets , ever so slightly in the mounting slots in the cross member. You see it when car is sitting and steering wheel moves to take up slack.
In my case I have to drill out the rack to accommodate 1/2" allen bolts to fill the slack in the cross member. Could be like you say the U joints on the shaft, but I find that unlikely ???
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Mike, I also have a Kugel IFS but it seems fine. I have the linkage apart and the 1"DD shaft at the bottom of the column clear. You can move it and feel the play.
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Munch
Are you saying the solid shaft that is inserted inside the hollow Double D is loose?
Or is it loose between the Double D and steering wheel?
Ed
Sorry Ed and guys, I should have included a picture to begin with. In the first pic I can grab the 1" shaft in the center of the column and I have play. The second pic is the tilt wheel where I can also detect some movement.
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Munch when you hold the bracket at the end of the steering column and you grab hold of the steering wheel at 3 oclock and at 9 oclock does the steering wheel wobble in and out if you push or pull on the steering wheel in either of these positions. If YES then this steering wheel in all probability came out of a truck because someone kept pulling on the steering wheel to get into the vehicle and they have over time loosened off the screws in the tilt column There are 5 screws if memory serves me right. I will try and find you a URL.When you put this back together you will use loctite on these screws or you could end up with the same problem again Vette59jdwl
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munch-------
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/d/d6/Jazzman_Steering_Rack_Rebuild.pdf
page 14 of this URL will show you 4 bolts if the above that i wrote is correct one two or three of these bolts has came loose If this is not the problem then it is in the column where the ball tilts and i believe moose has explained that been there cone that vette59jdwl
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Munch Also a very good follow up with explanations and part numbers of three pieces that will be essential to do this jub vette 59jdwl
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/suspension/t_steering.html
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Munch when you hold the bracket at the end of the steering column and you grab hold of the steering wheel at 3 oclock and at 9 oclock does the steering wheel wobble in and out if you push or pull on the steering wheel in either of these positions. If YES then this steering wheel in all probability came out of a truck because someone kept pulling on the steering wheel to get into the vehicle and they have over time loosened off the screws in the tilt column There are 5 screws if memory serves me right. I will try and find you a URL.When you put this back together you will use loctite on these screws or you could end up with the same problem again Vette59jdwl
After taking the steering wheel off and looking, the play seems to be isolated to the lower shaft. It has play side to side and in and out. When I move it, it does not affect the shaft at the steering wheel.
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http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/sucp-0707-tilt-steering-column/
If you open this URL and go to the last picture or thereabouts there is a picture with red arrows These red arrows are pointing at the bolts that i am almost sure have came loose is there a chance you got this steering column out of a truck.By the way read all of these URL's very carefully noting the parts numbers of the pieces you will need I had a steering puller so i did not have to buy that piece but i had two purchase two or three pieces that are for this purpose and this purpose only buy at Rilleys or any other parts supply house vette59jdwl
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Munch also check this one out and for gods sake take your time and be patient with this one lol lol vette59jdwl
http://forums.hotrod.com/high-performance-pontiac/70/9461265/interior-upgrade/gm-steering-tilt-steering-column-repair/
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Munch I have a really good friend whom i call Uncle John He had a Jeep and instead of bringing it to me he took it to the dealership,When he got finished explaining what was happening and i do laugh at this one because his steering wheel wabbled bobbed and crinched it every direction. I even asked him how the hell could he drive the vehicle like that so i asked him show me how you get in your JEEP sure enough first thing he did was grab hold of the steering wheel.
OK so the dealership told him $1,500.00 bucks to repair and replace the steering column.I told Uncle John you buy the parts and i will charge you $100.00 bucks.You know what he said
What i determined was that the JEEP steering column was one inch shorter than most GM columns so i repaired his column and i kept the pieces so i could do other repairs on steering columns,so think of it this way you are going to retain the knowledge of knowing what you are doing and share with others and you are saving yourself many $$$$$$ by learning how to do it yourself. I would pick on a rainy day to do the job but that is me have a great weekend vette59jdwl
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Munch This is the one that i go by all the time just took me a while longer to find it read everything first maybe even two times and then do it to it man vette59jdwl.
You other fellows should mark this page as well and move to favourites this one is worth keeping
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Munch This is the one that i go by all the time just took me a while longer to find it read everything first maybe even two times and then do it to it man vette59jdwl.
You other fellows should mark this page as well and move to favourites this one is worth keeping
I don't see anything. I am trying to figure out the ignition switch removal now, a little intimidating.
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You have to remove the phillips head screw and i believe that the gear shift should either be in park or neutral you will have to read the information at least once to understand how it comes apart vette59jdwl
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I am sure that you can do this just go slowly and go step by step the one from the pontiac divison or El Camino is the one that i use all the time so if you read all the post that i sent you and then follow along with the last one I am quite sure that you will call in a piece of cake when you are through and every one after that will be a walk in the park lol lol vette59jdwl let us know what you find. Ill put my money on the 4 bolts that hold the tilt bracket into the steering column good luck
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I am truly sorry Munch i left this out
http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=27192
vette59jdwl
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This is for 1969 to 1972 steering column GM
http://www.buickperformanceclub.com/tiltsteeringcolumnwobble.htm
vette59jdwl
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Munch...that column looks exactly like the one I have in my 34 Chevy. My plan is to replace it in the future with an OEM one out of an 88-94 S10 truck. The old square body S10 trucks (pre 95) have a nice compact column with great OEM quality.
Not happy with that chrome column in my 34..it feels loose and sloppy....bet it's made in China.
I can only recommend (for serious safety reasons) that you take that column out and apart to study the innards...something just ain't right!
Ed
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Right on Ed mine is a 1992 Jimmy and i like mine.I even like the steering wheel it has just the right feel vette59jdwl.I think if Munch reads all the info that i posted he should be able to rebuild these at a rate of at least three per day lol lol moi
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I am truly sorry Munch i left this out
http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=27192
vette59jdwl
Great documentation, it is coming along.
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I have one more for you with pictures
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-tech-performance/2781968-how-i-fixed-my-tilt-steering-a-pictorial.html
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OK Munch hows the tilt steering wheel coming vette59jdwl
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OK Munch hows the tilt steering wheel coming vette59jdwl
Great, thanks to your instructions I made good progress. Before I stopped, I could actually access one of the four bolts which was loose. I hope to get back to it this coming weekend if my nephew doesn't have something else in mind. He has me doing some cabinet work Thanks for asking, I will let you know.
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Munch-----Whatever you do make sure you use RED loctite on those screws that way you will never i say never have to come back and do this job on that column again that was a great experience give yourself a pat on the back.Maybe some day you may be able to pass on that knowledge vette59jdwl
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Munch-----Whatever you do make sure you use RED loctite on those screws that way you will never i say never have to come back and do this job on that column again that was a great experience give yourself a pat on the back.Maybe some day you may be able to pass on that knowledge vette59jdwl
I like that idea, thank you sir...