Rusty Bowtie

General Category => General Discussion - Intros => Topic started by: munch on September 26, 2015, 03:17:10 PM

Title: Steeing column play
Post by: munch on September 26, 2015, 03:17:10 PM
I began to replace the universal joints in the steering linkage talked about and I have play in the 1" DD shaft that comes out of the steering column.  That must be contributing to the movement I feel in the steering wheel.  Is it normal to have any play there.

It is supposedly a Flaming River column. 
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 26, 2015, 04:59:49 PM
Munch first of all there should be no play in the steering wheel.Unless it is a tilt or telescopic steering wheel. In that case you have something that has came loose in the mechanizem,Not a problem google how to fix tilt steering wheel and then when you put the pieces pack together use RED Loctite on the bolts that support the tilt. vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: madmike3434 on September 26, 2015, 07:38:07 PM
MUNCH.........do you have an independent front suspension in your car. ???

I found that the rack and pinion steering I have on my coupe with Kugel IFS, that the rack moves back and forth on the mounting brackets , ever so slightly in the mounting slots in the cross member. You see it when car is sitting and steering wheel moves to take up slack.

In my case I have to drill out the rack to accommodate 1/2" allen bolts to fill the slack in the cross member.

Could be like you say the U joints on the shaft, but I find that unlikely ???

mike lynch
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 26, 2015, 08:16:17 PM
Take another person with a pair of vice grips clamp them on the end of the steering column where the universal joint is and then try the move the steering wheel.see what becomes of that  you are deffinetely going to have to find out where this play is coming from can not have one inch of play  man that is way way way to much vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: ghost28 on September 26, 2015, 09:14:44 PM
What steering collumn do you have?
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: themoose on September 27, 2015, 07:33:43 AM
If its a modern column then it is the collapsible style. Some GM columns have nylon buttons or inserts that take up the slack where the inner and outer sections of the slide mechanism come together and they will sometimes fail causing that sort of play. Also as mentioned below if its a tilt column then there is some sort of a U joint used where the assemble tilts that might be worn. Again using GM as an example , they had ball type joints with nylon inserts in the joint that sometimes failed and caused a noise and play. Only way to know for sure is to take it apart and check all of the components
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: munch on September 27, 2015, 09:26:19 AM
MUNCH.........do you have an independent front suspension in your car. ???

I found that the rack and pinion steering I have on my coupe with Kugel IFS, that the rack moves back and forth on the mounting brackets , ever so slightly in the mounting slots in the cross member. You see it when car is sitting and steering wheel moves to take up slack.

In my case I have to drill out the rack to accommodate 1/2" allen bolts to fill the slack in the cross member.

Could be like you say the U joints on the shaft, but I find that unlikely ???  Mike, I also have a Kugel IFS but it seems fine.  I have the linkage apart and the 1"DD shaft at the bottom of the column clear.  You can move it and feel the play.
mike lynch
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: munch on September 27, 2015, 09:29:11 AM
Take another person with a pair of vice grips clamp them on the end of the steering column where the universal joint is and then try the move the steering wheel.see what becomes of that  you are deffinetely going to have to find out where this play is coming from can not have one inch of play  man that is way way way to much vette59jdwl
  No, no, it is a 1"DD shaft not 1" of play.  The play is noticeable enough to make a noise.
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: munch on September 27, 2015, 09:33:47 AM
It is a Flaming River tilt GM style with gear selector.  You also can notice the play in the tilt mechanism.
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: EDNY on September 27, 2015, 09:58:42 AM
Munch

Are you saying the solid shaft that is inserted inside the hollow Double D is loose? 

Or is it loose between the Double D and steering wheel?

Ed
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: themoose on September 27, 2015, 10:26:47 AM
Typical GM style tilt column have two places where play of noise can develop. One is at the tilt joint where there are nylon inserts in the joint assembly and the other is where the male and female portions of the column come together in a slip joint. The nylon can either ware or brake and cause the problem. I don't know of much else that could cause  excessive play or noise in the column. Really a simple setup....

Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: EDNY on September 27, 2015, 10:53:21 AM
Typical GM style tilt column have two places where play of noise can develop. One is at the tilt joint where there are nylon inserts in the joint assembly and the other is where the male and female portions of the column come together in a slip joint. The nylon can either ware or brake and cause the problem. I don't know of much else that could cause  excessive play or noise in the column. Really a simple setup....

Moose....have seen those knuckle joints loosen up (on tilt columns only)....easy fix once you get the column torn down.  Just tighten down the 3 or 4 retainer ring screws that secures the ball joint..then spend at least 45 minutes putting the column back together :'(
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: madmike3434 on September 27, 2015, 10:56:26 AM
MUNCH.........do you have an independent front suspension in your car. ???

I found that the rack and pinion steering I have on my coupe with Kugel IFS, that the rack moves back and forth on the mounting brackets , ever so slightly in the mounting slots in the cross member. You see it when car is sitting and steering wheel moves to take up slack.

In my case I have to drill out the rack to accommodate 1/2" allen bolts to fill the slack in the cross member.  Could be like you say the U joints on the shaft, but I find that unlikely ???

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  Mike, I also have a Kugel IFS but it seems fine.  I have the linkage apart and the 1"DD shaft at the bottom of the column clear.  You can move it and feel the play.
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: munch on September 27, 2015, 11:09:40 AM
Munch

Are you saying the solid shaft that is inserted inside the hollow Double D is loose? 

Or is it loose between the Double D and steering wheel?

Ed
  Sorry Ed and guys, I should have included a picture to begin with.  In the first pic I can grab the 1" shaft in the center of the column and I have play.  The second pic is the tilt wheel where I can also detect some movement.
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 11:53:59 AM
Munch when you hold the bracket at the end of the steering column and you grab hold of the steering wheel at 3 oclock and at 9 oclock does the steering wheel wobble in and out if you push or pull on the steering wheel in either of these positions. If YES then this steering wheel in all probability came out of a truck because someone kept pulling on the steering wheel to get into the vehicle and they have over time loosened off the screws in the tilt column  There are 5 screws if memory serves me right. I will try and find you a URL.When you put this back together you will use loctite on these screws or you could end up with the same problem again Vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 12:02:37 PM
munch-------

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/d/d6/Jazzman_Steering_Rack_Rebuild.pdf

page 14 of this URL will show you 4 bolts if the above that i wrote is correct one two or three of these bolts has came loose If this is not the problem then it is in the column where the ball tilts and i believe moose has explained that  been there cone that  vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 12:06:25 PM
Munch   Also a very good follow up with explanations and part numbers of three pieces that will be essential to do this jub  vette 59jdwl

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/suspension/t_steering.html
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: munch on September 27, 2015, 12:28:40 PM
Munch when you hold the bracket at the end of the steering column and you grab hold of the steering wheel at 3 oclock and at 9 oclock does the steering wheel wobble in and out if you push or pull on the steering wheel in either of these positions. If YES then this steering wheel in all probability came out of a truck because someone kept pulling on the steering wheel to get into the vehicle and they have over time loosened off the screws in the tilt column  There are 5 screws if memory serves me right. I will try and find you a URL.When you put this back together you will use loctite on these screws or you could end up with the same problem again Vette59jdwl

After taking the steering wheel off and looking, the play seems to be isolated to the lower shaft.  It has play side to side and in and out.  When I move it, it does not affect the shaft at the steering wheel.
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 12:51:22 PM
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/sucp-0707-tilt-steering-column/

If you open this URL and go to the last picture or thereabouts there is a picture with red arrows  These red arrows are pointing at the bolts that i am almost sure have came loose  is there a chance you got this steering column out of a truck.By the way read all of these URL's very carefully noting the parts numbers of the pieces you will need  I had a steering puller so i did not have to buy that piece but i had two purchase two or three pieces that are for this purpose and this purpose only buy at Rilleys or any other parts supply house   vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 12:55:42 PM
Munch also check this one out  and for gods sake take your time and be patient with this one  lol lol  vette59jdwl

http://forums.hotrod.com/high-performance-pontiac/70/9461265/interior-upgrade/gm-steering-tilt-steering-column-repair/
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 01:04:27 PM
  Munch  I have a really good friend whom i call Uncle John  He had a Jeep and instead of bringing it to me he took it to the dealership,When he got finished explaining what was happening and i do laugh at this one because his steering wheel wabbled bobbed and crinched it every direction. I even asked him how the hell could he drive the vehicle like that so i asked him show me how you get in your JEEP sure enough first thing he did was grab hold of the steering wheel.
  OK so the dealership told him $1,500.00 bucks to repair and replace the steering column.I told Uncle John you buy the parts and i will charge you $100.00 bucks.You know what he said
   What i determined was that the JEEP steering column was one inch shorter than most GM columns so i repaired his column and i kept the pieces so i could do other repairs on steering columns,so think of it this way you are going to retain the knowledge of knowing what you are doing and share with others and you are saving yourself many $$$$$$ by learning how to do it yourself. I would pick on a rainy day to do the job but that is me  have a great weekend   vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 01:22:44 PM
  Munch  This is the one that i go by all the time  just took me  a while longer to find it  read everything first maybe even two times and then do it to it man  vette59jdwl.
  You other fellows should mark this page as well and move to favourites  this one is worth keeping
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: munch on September 27, 2015, 01:35:04 PM
  Munch  This is the one that i go by all the time  just took me  a while longer to find it  read everything first maybe even two times and then do it to it man  vette59jdwl.
  You other fellows should mark this page as well and move to favourites  this one is worth keeping
  I don't see anything.  I am trying to figure out the ignition switch removal now, a little intimidating.
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 03:32:19 PM
You have to remove the phillips head screw and i believe that the gear shift should either be in park or neutral  you will have to read the information at least once to understand how it comes apart   vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 06:53:02 PM
  I am sure that you can do this just go slowly and go step by step the one from the pontiac divison or El Camino is the one that i use all the time so if you read all the post that i sent you and then follow along with the last one  I am quite sure that you will call in a piece of cake when you are through and every one after that will be a walk in the park  lol lol  vette59jdwl  let us know what you find. Ill put my money on the 4 bolts that hold the tilt bracket into the steering column good luck
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 07:00:02 PM
I am truly sorry Munch i left this out

http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=27192

vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 07:15:40 PM
This is for 1969 to 1972 steering column  GM

http://www.buickperformanceclub.com/tiltsteeringcolumnwobble.htm

vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: EDNY on September 27, 2015, 09:00:51 PM
Munch...that column looks exactly like the one I have in my 34 Chevy.  My plan is to replace it in the future with an OEM one out of an 88-94 S10 truck. The old square body S10 trucks (pre 95) have a nice compact column with great OEM quality.

Not happy with that chrome column in my 34..it feels loose and sloppy....bet it's made in China.

I can only recommend (for serious safety reasons) that you take that column out and apart to study the innards...something just ain't right!

Ed
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 27, 2015, 09:14:38 PM
Right on Ed  mine is a 1992 Jimmy and i like mine.I even like the steering wheel it has just the right feel  vette59jdwl.I think if Munch reads all the info that i posted he should be able to rebuild these at a rate of at least three per day lol lol  moi
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: munch on September 28, 2015, 07:03:44 AM
I am truly sorry Munch i left this out

http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=27192

vette59jdwl

Great documentation, it is coming along.
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 28, 2015, 10:53:34 AM
I have one more for you with pictures

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-tech-performance/2781968-how-i-fixed-my-tilt-steering-a-pictorial.html
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 29, 2015, 07:35:08 PM
OK Munch  hows the tilt steering wheel coming  vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: munch on September 30, 2015, 01:12:28 PM
OK Munch  hows the tilt steering wheel coming  vette59jdwl
  Great, thanks to your instructions I made good progress.  Before I stopped, I could actually access one of the four bolts which was loose.  I hope to get back to it this coming weekend if my nephew doesn't have something else in mind.  He has me doing some cabinet work   Thanks for asking, I will let you know.
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: vette59jdwl on September 30, 2015, 05:35:45 PM
Munch-----Whatever you do make sure you use RED loctite on those screws that way you will never i say never have to come back and do this job on that column again  that was a great experience give yourself a pat on the back.Maybe some day you may be able to pass on that knowledge  vette59jdwl
Title: Re: Steeing column play
Post by: munch on September 30, 2015, 07:55:54 PM
Munch-----Whatever you do make sure you use RED loctite on those screws that way you will never i say never have to come back and do this job on that column again  that was a great experience give yourself a pat on the back.Maybe some day you may be able to pass on that knowledge  vette59jdwl

I like that idea, thank you sir...
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