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« Last post by sammons on March 26, 2024, 12:01:04 PM »
Nice fix. Seems S&W has a problem they should be responsible for. Sure looks like you got it zero'd in on the sweet spot.
Had similar FTF situation on two of my well used riffles, they were getting like strikes and more outside of rim. My little Ithica was actualy leaving a burr on the outside. Other was my old Marlin 39a which was just leaving the light strike. I pulled the firing pin on both, decided they were slightly mushroomed on strike end. Hammered them out and dressed the end back up with a file. They are both back to 100% fire now.
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« Last post by EDNY on March 25, 2024, 09:28:38 PM »
I recently fabricated a firing pin that has eliminated the condition of Fail to Fire (FTF) inherent with the Smith and Wesson Model 617 22 Rim fire revolver. A search of the Internet will reveal several reports by 617 owners experiencing the FTF condition. Some of the fixes noted include, replacing the hammer, replacing the firing pin with a longer one, correcting timing, replacing springs, forcing cone issues, buying various manufactured ammo etc.
After some research and studying the condition with my Model 617-4 and 617-6 revolvers I modified a Power Custom extended firing pin with the result of 100% ignition in the revolvers.
Attachment A: This is the actual strike impression made with my 617 revolver prior to installing my modified firing pin. FYI: It took (2) strikes before the Eley rim fire round would ignite. Note that the strike is positioned at the very outside edge of the rim fire round.
Attachment B: The Eley drawing indicates where the firing strike should occur. Notice that it is inside the perimeter of the rim fire round and not on the rim as with my 617 revolver (Attachment A)
Attachment C: This Eley drawing demonstrates how a properly shaped firing pin nose begins the primer crush inside and below the outer rim. The 617 firing strikes put full force on the densest outer area of the rim cartridge which prevents proper primer crush resulting in the FTF condition. It's not uncommon to continue to FTF even after several repeat strikes in the same area.
Attachment D: This drawing is not to scale it is intended to demonstrate the areas and angle where I removed metal from a Power Custom extended firing pin. You will note that the firing pin nose no longer has convex shape (ball end) but rather flat face and angled upper portion.* I also removed the rear saddle depression to ensure full unhampered forward travel, also removed one coil from the firing pin spring to make up for the material a removed at the front of the pin (ie reduced AOL). With a newly designed full length firing pin the spring would not be shortened, this was done for research purposes.
Attachment E: This is a picture of the resulting firing pin impression, each round fired on the first attempt. I have repeated the successful 10 round cycle with 100% ignition on each attempt. (Even with main spring adjustment screwed backed out 1/2 turn for testing purposes. (Eley and Federal bulk ammo) Again, 100% ignition. You will notice that my firing pins strikes do not hit the outer rim and impressions are wider like you would see with a rifle firing pin impression.
* Another benefit of the modified firing pin: Because the 617 revolver firing pin strikes on the outside edge of the 22 rim fire cartridge it also will hit the cylinder when dry firing with an empty cylinder, causing dings in the cylinder. A properly modified firing pin nose could eliminate these dry fire dings. The firing pin retainer pin will ensure proper firing pin north-south alignment.
Food for thought: A permanent Model 617 FTF fix would be to reposition the firing pin path by modifying the Model 617 revolver. Another fix would be to manufacture the Model 617 specific firing pin with modifications previously noted. Of course the modified pin would be specific to the Model 617 and not intended for center fire revolvers.
NOTE: This modification only works with an unmodified factory hammer or the Apex Mass Driver Hammer, hammer weight is essential.
In closing it works!
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« Last post by TFoch on March 25, 2024, 06:05:47 PM »
Looks like fine jewelry!
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« Last post by sammons on March 25, 2024, 02:16:53 PM »
Engine and trans looks great! You are moving right along.
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« Last post by sammons on March 25, 2024, 02:15:12 PM »
Essex we, (in Kansas anyway), got what they called a restricted licence at 14 for school, work or parent errands. Then we got our regular licence at 16.
My little brother and i bought our 1st vehicle in 1970. It was a 1950 Chevy panel truck that the neighbor dropped the tierod pulling into his driveway after work, give the guy $1.00 for it. Took me mowing 4-5 yards to get the money for a new tierod end. Hours of fun driving in Grandpas pasture and camping in it😄
By the time i graduated in '79 i had been through 19 cars/trucks. I wish i knew what the count was today... i quit counting many decades ago.
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« Last post by Essex_29 on March 23, 2024, 04:50:17 PM »
Sounds good, you have made a decision. It always feels betterwhen you have a plan to work off of.
That car looks very cool, if I'd live close by, I 'd come over and ask for a ride to some place where
I can buy you a coffee.
So cool with the wood doors and all.
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« Last post by Essex_29 on March 23, 2024, 04:44:28 PM »
Wow, 51 years!
Nice story, Sammons. Nice to hear that the car of yours has a good home now.
Amazing how people keep their old cars like that. I guess there's also a difference in car culture, and in my
case, the fact that we lived in apartment buildings when I was very young. My dad owned eight cars in his
entre life, starting with a 1948 Citroen Sport, traction avant (front wheel drive). He always traded in his
old car for the next one, never owning a new car, never keeping the old one.
American cars were fairly unusual, in part because they were comparably expensive. Our neighbour in the
early seventies had a circa 1967 Plymouth Valiant, and I remember it as being huge.
My first car was a 1967 Ford Cortina I bought in 1983 when I was 17. 18 was the age when you got your
driver's licence and I have since owned 68 cars, 32 of them American made. I don't know where my
interest for cars came from, but it appears to have begun right when I was born. My dad showed me
how to change the oli in our rear engined Simca 1000 when I was about 5, I still remember that, but
he wasn't into cars, just did maintenace to save money.
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« Last post by Essex_29 on March 23, 2024, 04:14:15 PM »
Back after a lot more cleaning and also some totally unrelated work. I removed the cylindrical thingy in the oil pan here in my last post. I assume it's an oil level sender or something. I welded the hole shut after removing the sender, it was leaking anyway, so no reason at all to keep it. A few days more of cleaning the block and various parts, I stirred a batch of epoxy and sprayed it on.  The engine looks funny in light gray, like an Iveco marine diesel. Transmission bellhousing was epoxied too, as was the engine to trans adapter and the intake. Then the next day, black automotive 2K Glasurit high gloss paint.  The intake looks very nice when painted. Before painting I welded in a longitudinal divider in the center of the intake to avoid the adjacent intake runners to steal the air/fuel mix from eachother.  The bell housing was painted where it shows when you look at the back of the engine with the car assembled.  Today, I sandblasted and epoxied the engine mounts, also the new water pump, thermostat housing and pulley. Seems it's new parts that need to be painted every day.
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« Last post by sammons on March 23, 2024, 01:28:42 PM »
Yes, it's in good capable hands. Thinking about this for several years, who would really want it and keep it. Not just sell it for the money. My choises were my girlfriend, brother or my buddies Cheech, Tom. My girl friend never really cared which car through high school till it came to my Mach 1, she fell in love with it. She hates bad gas mileage, so no. My brother has pleanty of cars he has to try and maintain. My buddy Cheech has had almost as many hours of seat time in it as me since we were 13 sneeking down the alleys. But other than basic oil changes, he hasn't the tools knowlage to deal with it or a place to keep it other than an open carport. Tom has been hands on involved with it since '86 when he took my transmission to trade school and rebuilt it. Tom can do bodywork and paint plus he was a ASE certified mechanic, plus he has the shop where its been kept for decades. These old muscle cars require a lot of upkeep.
I screwed up in 86 when i tore it down to repaint back to original blue. All R/T's came standard with 440 4 bbl magnums, 10.0 compression pistons. 6 pack upgrade was a bigger cam and 10.5. Dumb ass me thought it was 11.5. So i oredered 6 pack cam from Chysler and Std bore 11.5 pistons from Trw. We still had 103 octaine fuel here at the time, and it still needed more in the summer.
I told Tom he should either tear it down and put original 10. Pistons in or just set it aside a put a low compression BB in its place. He talked about going to an E-85 carb and run that, but nearest station
with E-85 is 30 miles away. His problem now😁
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« Last post by sixball on March 23, 2024, 12:03:17 PM »
It ia not just a car our lives revolved around these things. They are part of what we were and what we loved. They can out last us if cared for. They can be made new again.
our first new car was a 1970 Blazer. I ca see it out of the window from where I am sitting right now. Neglected but there along with a '62 Porsche Super 90 coupe. The two cars we came to Nevada with in 1972. They both need lots of work and it is doubtful I'll get it done. At least my sons are interested in both. Sometimes I wonder how many one owner early Blazers are out there or matching number 356 Porsches. I'm sure they are worth something but it doesn't matter. Maybe I should find someone to put them back on the road.
I admire you for making sure your R/T has a home. It was obviously a chick magnet!
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