Rusty Bowtie
General Category => GM Tech Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Cool53 on January 04, 2014, 06:07:05 PM
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I hate having to go through all the gyrations of trying to get good braking with a big cam. So I decided on my truck, which has C4 brakes and suspension, to go with manual. But it is recommended not to try to use the little C4 calipers without power assist. So I put the system together to where it would stop to some degree and kept picking at it. In the end I used the manual master from a 1978 Malibu, which has a 7/8" bore, and added a brake pressure amplifier from ECI to the front. I had one on the back, too, but it was unnecessary and since I was increasing pedal travel with all these smaller parts I had to be judicious. The final part was Hawk brake pads. I use street pads for normal driving and for a while went to a much more aggressive pad for the track, to hold the truck. But now that I have the tune up right where it needs to be I can either launch from an idle, or with the 2 step set at 3 grand. I have a 3500 converter. Launching from idle, or just above, is the best way yo launch with a street/strip "flash" converter. But the brakes work great and that's all it took.
ECI in Moose's home state of CT has now come out with a terrific booster/master that delivers power stopping through a unique concept. Check out what Ralph has done at ECI. But the new system he came up with is pricey and in such demand you may have to wait a while.
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OK seeing i am new here I don,t want to stomp on anyone's toes But here's my two cents worth and i am sticking with it .We all know there are $$$$$$Ideas out there and systems that cost more than i paid for my 59 vette so here goes I wish to get rid of the master cylinder on the firewall. OK you say.. what ???My 59 has a single master sitting out on the firewall. I 'like it .. You say ..put a dual master in its place ugly.under the hood .How about the last year the CHEVY made power drum brakes say 1972 ????Close ..OK, now put a Brake Cylinder on the firewall a single,,,, hook it up to a slave in the trunk driving a MASTER with a proportioning valve and run 4 that's right FOUR brake lines one to each wheel.Only thing one would have to do is use a reverse procedure for bleeding the brakes.Why hasn't this been done before. Imagine a 59 vette to 62 with a single cylinder brake system just like a 49 Chevy OH NO. Wayner
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Dual cylinders were meant for safety, and to do what you want takes a few formulas for volume and the amount of work performed. What you want to do is possible, but you are complicating things with all the additional lines and parts and increasing pedal travel considerably. That's part of the problem I had getting my system to work well with the small bore master. And that's what ECI did. Even What Ralph did isn't exactly rocker science, if you are familiar with the engineering involved and have good machining skills. But you may have to try what you are thinking to see where it gets you, that's how I've always learned. I call and ask Ralph at ECI or Dutch Miller at Baer. They usually clear things up for me. Jef
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What i am describing is like a hydraulic clutch only the slave cylinder is driving a master cylinder.What i was looking for is power drum brakes with a line to each wheel cylinder .And placing the master cylinder in the trunk.
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In order to have the slave drive the master the piston in the slave will need to be smaller than TGIF piston in he master, which will necessitate increased pedal travel. If you can over come that then you might find a benefit. But he pedal travel is going to be considerable. It's one of those catch 22 situations.
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Even if you are able to overcome the excessive pedal travel as Jef stated below you will still be defeating an important feature of the duel master which is safety. If one circuit fails you still have the second as backup. If the single piston/slave system fails your duel master suddenly becomes nothing more than extra weight. The more parts that you put into a system the more potential there is for failure so I always try to keep it as simple as possible .
Moose