Rusty Bowtie
General Category => Early Chevy/GM Discussion => Topic started by: voided on March 07, 2016, 09:26:52 AM
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I searched thru all I could and couldnt find any infomation, I'm aligning the body on a table I made.
After getting it all up on the table and clamped together. I noticed the door doesn't come down as far as the cowl, and rear body. I'm paying attention to the belt line to keep the body aligned along with the lower window framing. With those aligned the top of the body is aligned.
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body has to be placed onto the chassis its going to sit on. with all the body mount rubbers placed under it, you might have to shim it with metal shims under bolts, this is way GM aligns the doors to the body. You will need a bottle jack to reach up to the wood sill to raise the wood & body up.
The FISHER BODY BOOK various people on ebay have sold, try " the filling station " cover the aligning and shimming. Have to find my copy of it. Most likely will be a 1930 1935 book
I am not familiar with your year of chev, but the 33-35's had a turnbuckle system that has it start at top front corner and runs on a 45 down to bottom rear corner of the door. If the bottom rear of your door is sticking out, then you tighten the turnbuckle till the panels are flush with each other. And if in too far then undo it.
If I remember correctly the top of the rod has a screw blade type countersunk for tightening. The bottom has a socket the threads fit into. Makes aligning the door very easy.
If you do not have these parts , not sure if anybody ever reproduced them . Might have to make it yourself from length of threaded rod and countersunk bolt at top welded to the rod and a T nut sunk into wood at the bottom
mike lynch 8)
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I'm like Mike, not familiar with 28. But I think your missing the rocker/sill panel (bottom door jamb, body side) if it's like the newer GMs, it should be a part of the lower body bead (cowl/rear qtr). That should acount for the 1/2 or so gap at the bottom of the door.
Question- Do you have or will be using the orig frame, or are you going to fabricate one?
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sorry fellas. I'll explain alil deeper.
The body has no wood or structure, I'll be making a steel skeleton structure inside the body. As for frame I'm using a 32 truck frame im gonna modify.
Im trying to align panels to build the structure inside so i can channel and chop accordingly.
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Voided I built my first 34 body (steel structure) with out a frame at all. What a pain. I had a guy give me the dementions of correct frame at body mount points (from all directions, left to right, from ground to top of frame mount,front to back) I had to fab my own rockers (mine were missing) to connect the cowl to the rear body to get the lower attatched. On them, if the door was racked wrong and you aligned body by door gap alone, then the body once mounted could be cock eyed.
The 33-34 were what i call sway back, the bottom of the car was not a level straight line. Yours looks like a straight line? Should make it easier. Make sure you X-measure the door jamb opening from left to right. Too much to tell typing for these stiff fingers. on alignment on my phone.
Sending pm
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i did the same thing on my 28 sedan, but without the table on the floor. What I did was set the upper roof panels in the original nail markings and tack in place, and then set the lower rocker panels, then allighn the cowl and tack to the lower rockers, and allighn the doors to all the belt lines and with a 1/4 inch gap and tack the doors in place step back and check on the curvature of the whole thing. roof support, beltline, doors, and lower rockers. I hope this help you.
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Voided, I'm with Sammons on this. I might have missed something in the thread, but it looks like your rocker panels are missing. That would account for your door being a couple inches higher.
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Yea the rockers are missing. I went searching thru the pile of metal I'm sorting out. I found One upper with door stop mounted to it. But no rockers.
time to find some lowers and possibly another upper door stop
Im also missing the piece that goes from the left to right roof panel across the front on top of the windshield support
Thanks for the pictures fella's
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A lot of those stayed with what was left of the wood when the body was hauled away. I have one for my roadster. Lucky for me the similar piece below the trunk lid is still on the wooden parts I got. That is a nice looking sedan.
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Voided, I found some '28 Chevy 2dr sedan rockers on Howells Sheetmetal site. Price wasn't that bad, I didn't think.
Rockers $85 pair
Above door header? $75 pair
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sammons Thanks for doing the leg work...
this forum has given me so many answers .... Thank you everyone.
sixball I paid 600 for it in complete pieces, and while I wasn't completely in the dark with what it had to have I over looked a couple things like you see in this thread
also got some extras I probably wont use like the hood and original visor. if anyone is interested in those we can strike up a deal.
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Voided when ordering any thing from Howells site, make sure they are in stock when ordered otherwise you might be waiting quite awhile for them to do a run of the item. I ordered a set of splash aprons for a 27 chevy and after 6 months I had to cancel the order, but they did send my money back no problem. I am sure they are a good company.
What I used one time out of desperation to build the lower sill plates. I used the lower strip of metal that is on the lower edge of a old 6 foot folding tables that I had laying around the metal is the right size and guage, but not to thick so you can still tweak it a little to get the curve you need.
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I paid $600 for my '26 Roadster body a Long time ago. I think you did well.
Sammons, I didn't know that sheet metal place existed, thanks.
Dang, They didn't have the '29 radiator splash apron I'm looking for. :(
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The brackets on that visor if not broke can probably get you some coin, not sure what they are worth, but I never could find any for my 28
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Sixball, this guy has had a couple of these listed at sometime on E-bay. I can't find the date or when/if it sold. They are out of St. Louis Mo. and deal in new/used 1919-31 chevy parts. Phone # 314-293-1991. Looks like between $250-340?
Is this the style you were after? Pics are what he had listed
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That's the one. The one I have is pretty rough. I will probably make one because I'd have to modify a stock one any way for what I want.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HKIpbD5zZEQ/Vt-x24JvCMI/AAAAAAAAJPU/HNURX_e20yU/s400-Ic42/100_0819.JPG)
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Looked up the phone #, "Early Chevrolet Parts" listed below on index page.
Sixball that doesn't look bad at all. Your center section looks good, and the frame horn covers are repairable. ( compared to what they want :o)
Voided, this is what I meant about X-measuring. Align panels, measure, and tack up body. Make sure to keep checking "X". Measurment (A) would be at a fixed location, as low as possible, as close to the frt body mount(or door jamb, to a fixed point on rear body mount or center line on rear wheel tub.This will assure you that the body does not "diamond" on you while weld draw.(one side getting ahead of the other)
Measurement (B) will make sure your b-pillar(rear door jamb) hasn't rolled under some at the very bottom.
Good luck, it's just a time consumeing thing!
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just ordered my first tig machine after selling my old 110v mig.. time to learn some new tricks to get this body together and chopped..
and contact howell to see if im gonna have to wait for those pieces..
will do sammons. thanks again...
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Thanks Sammons.
Are your "A" measurements horizontal at the bottom of the body? Are the "B" measurements diagonal bottom of A pillar to top of B pillar and top of A to bottom of B? There seems like three are lots of places where a guy could screw up. I guess lots of measuring and remeasuring are in order. Voided keep us up on how this is going.
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Sixball, that would be the lower horizonal plane down low on both. As Ghost said, set up all your panels with door gaps what you wish. I would go 3/16" +/-, sedan/coupe can be tighter (less movement) than roadster/conv. (More movement due to no roof structure). Then tack and "X" measure everything. You want to mirror image tape distances, and come up with the same number.
Example- say your right front door jamb to left rear door jamb is 59 3/4". Your left front to right rear is 60 1/4". Your out of square by 1/2". That tells you either the left rear is 1/4" in to far or right rear is out 1/4" to far. Push/pull lower body till the measurement is 60" both ways.
Now it doesn't hurt to X every where you can think of (diagonaly etc) I know it maybe overkill, but it's nice to get it as square as possible. Keep in mind, the older factory frame specs use to have a 1/8" +/- to be with in tolorance.
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i got my tig welder in today, gotta go get my argon filled and some silicone bronze sticks.
howells, said they are a week wait time on the rockers so i ordered them and gonna practice till they get in.
gotta plan out the 4" channel and get some 2x2's mounted for sub floor idea's before trying to build anything permanent
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Check out TFoch '33 build on this site....I kinda followed his build for my floor, but did mine a bit different
There are quite a few threads on floors on this site, various ways of tackling the project...a lot of good ideas by the guys
Photos are of my floor on my '33
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FATnLOW In your first picture i noticed you do not have a frame or should i cal it a body frame.I notice holes in the ends of your cross pieces..whats with that vette59jdwl
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Vette...Those holes in the cross members are at original floor to frame mounting point...pics not show sill rails that run from front to rear...photo shows carriage bolt going thru floor, then thru cross member, and original body mount ..all cross members were set up over original body mounts points
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VOIDED...............while your learning the technique of TIG welding suggest when welding on the car , not to use silicon bronze wire.
Primers and paint will not adhere properly to bronze and before you know it paint primer is cracking.
I could be wrong, suggest you research it on computer before lighting up TIG unit.
mike lynch 8)
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madmike....... perfect !!!!
I actually aint painting this 88 yr old beauty...
and have talked to a couple guys in the body field that have cleared over the silicone bronze before with no problems.. they actually were the ones who told me to use the silicone bronze to help with keeping my body panels from distorting while being welded
a quick call to my body shop guys and they said "as long as i dont brass braze, your good"
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almost a month waiting on my rockers from howells when quoted a week before shipping.
been putzing around and practicing welding for when these come in, but im losing hope and might just try and build them from scratch...
would of went that route if he didnt quote me a week, a month ago
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almost a month waiting on my rockers from howells when quoted a week before shipping.
would of went that route if he didnt quote me a week, a month ago
I bet when you call them. They will tell you they haven't started a production run yet. I waited for two month or more for a pair of 27 chevy running board splash pans. I finally asked for my money back. This seems to be a problem with them.
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im just mad i was quoted a week, and now i cant get a response to any email (either thru paypal or my gmail) and no one answers or responds to voicemails. calling the 1-800-375-6663 doesnt work either
ill try the 409-838-3673 number i found tomorrow
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I,m sorry to here that. I won't use them anymore, but keep trying to get in touch with them at least to get your money back.
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Voided, i'm sorry I found that site. :( I've never used them, always made my own. Sure didn't know they were flakey like that!
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sammons no worries thats specifically went with paypal.
time to build some
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I guess I should have posted a waiver. ;)
My girl friends brother replaced his Vette rear trailing arm bushings and ask me who did a good alignment. There was a guy that had worked with my uncle at an independent tire/align shop, really good with Vette rear end alignments. He had been hired away by Firestone, so I sent him down there. They mounted his new rear tires and aligned. He called me as soon as he got to Longmont Co, pissed was putting it mildly. He chewed the inside of both tires to the cords. Come to find out, the guy got hireded out by Chevy garage a few days before. ::)
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gotta be something up with the howell's business. Still no response from them, still don't answer no calls, and are not answering paypal's dispute.
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How hard would they be to fabricate yourself?
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Tfoch not hard if i only use flat stock. still torn between which rod i want to build. with such a clean body i was leaning towards a resto mod minus paint because i really like the 88 yr old patina. and not where i just slap some stuff together and look unfinished.
i cant technically call it a ratrod because ive only been collecting chevy parts for it. and nothing really being re purposed.
my goal is still $3000 budget and im still under that but gotta get my front end, brake system, driveshaft and wiring. i know ill go over my budget but im trying to stick to it with out cutting corners.
i want something i can keep and pass down to my kids some day. even if its 2028 before one will be able to act like they are driving it.
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frame is in, currently waiting on front cross member to come in. Frame is a 5" front and 12" rear z. already set for my small block and turbo 400.
body has been sitting and i have been playing with some sheet metal and some brakes / benders to help me in the long run..
gotta measure the body and decide on a rear to use. i have a 10bolt but it needs a complete rebuild, and dont think its wide enough.
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Good looking frame! :)
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sammons, im beyond pleased with the welds, dimensions, and overall completion that boling brothers built
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That's a good looking chassis. engine mounts, transmission mount, all in place. Whatt are you using for front and rear suspension?
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ghost28 ill be using a 6" drop axle spring behind, mating to a air ride cross member and gm rear end with ladder bars and air ride out back for height adjustments.
deciding on width now. planning on running a 22" gm transits and 20" fronts but havent really decided yet