Rusty Bowtie
General Category => General Discussion - Intros => Topic started by: munch on December 01, 2022, 02:02:05 PM
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I continue to have the problem where the car tends to sway back and forth on the road and can be scary. I think this problem showed worst when I put a power rack on. The only thing the shop can find is 1 degree positive camber on the right rear wheel and 1/2 degree positive camber on the left wheel. The rear end is a 57 Chevy that has been narrowed to fit. They are suspecting the rear end is the problem.
As always, your thoughts are valued and appreciated...
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What is the caster...sounds like some postive castor would pull it straight. If you now have power steering...on a light hot rod...might need a little positive caster to make up for the power steering.
Of course "toe" could also contribute...but I would verify caster first.
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What is the caster...sounds like some postive castor would pull it straight. If you now have power steering...on a light hot rod...might need a little positive caster to make up for the power steering.
Of course "toe" could also contribute...but I would verify caster first.
Ed, just to be clear, I am talking about the rear end. After they shortened it, maybe they tweaked it to cause the positive camber. It would have to be cut and wielded to correct this wouldn't it?
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Yes..I would use a magnetic digital gauge to check housing tube vs axle faces? If you had run out..I would think you'd have a vibration issue.
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I really don't think 1 degree + on one side and 1/2 degree + on the other would cause a steering issue, slight tire wear maybe. The is 1/2 degree difference. I bet the housing could be tweaked enough to straighten it.
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Can they give you a print out of the front alignment ?
Solid axle rear, not much can be done except maybe swap a unmodified rear in, maybe Ford 8.8 or other. Could the steering be tight (like not returning to center) ?
Mine does this after using a stabilizer.
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What about the front to rear weight ratio? Maybe there's not enough weight up front.
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Yes..I would use a magnetic digital gauge to check housing tube vs axle faces? If you had run out..I would think you'd have a vibration issue.
Thanks Ed
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Can they give you a print out of the front alignment ?
Solid axle rear, not much can be done except maybe swap a unmodified rear in, maybe Ford 8.8 or other. Could the steering be tight (like not returning to center) ?
Mine does this after using a stabilizer.
Rattiac, the frontend guy has worked with the front end and rear 4 link and to no avail. Maybe worse. I gave him the Kugel specs that got from Jeff Kugel, but he says he doesn't need them. He is an old school gut, but most hot roders recommend him. On a test ride yesterday I almost lost it when a tractor trailor passed and the car veered drastically from the wind. I tried to compensate and it resulted in a fight to stop the swaying back and fourth. I just want to drive my car. Thanks
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What about the front to rear weight ratio? Maybe there's not enough weight up front.
I will suggest that, thanks.
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Maybe more caster is needed and a bit more toe.
Just an example::;;; my 99 jeep has 7° caster from the factory with a 1.75 ballpark (5.50 to 8.0) tolerance.
I take recommendations from other local hotrodders with a grain of salt, cause most times I've been deeply disappointed. Like the guy who aligned my axle, he bent it on one side and looks like crap. 🙁
Demand a print out and get a second opinion before any major mods.
Some guys just refuse to learn or try new things.
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I agree with a lot above and Rattiac's thoughts.
If your sway got worse when you changed to a power rack, more caster may be needed. Racks have a tendency to be a quick ratio and not being on the numbers may make it worse with power. Rear coils have a tendency to be more sway than leaf spings and weight bias effects that. I also doubt your rear end being only 1/2 degree off will have anything to do with the problem.
Personally i would go off the Kugel specs. I'm sure they spent much time and money on the research during development. My good old alignment guy would start at factory specs, take it out for a test and then tweek to meet the individual car requirments based on his complete understanding of suspensions. When he was happy, so was i.
I've had quite a few good alignment guys, but all but 2 failed at setting C2-C3 Vette rear ends correctly. They both started a factory specs and tweeked from there if they had to.
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Sounds you have a real bad problem there,munch. The problem getting worse
with powersteering sounds like a lot more caster would be needed.
My Essex was all but undriveable with 4 degrees of caster (all over the road at
40mph). I put in 7 degree wedges, and it behaved like new.
Lots of caster doesn't have any negative effects other than making the turn
radius slightly bigger and the car sluggish if you go ridiculous.
Too little caster is plain awful.
I have a bit of toe out on the rear acle of my '57 Pontiac, which makes it behave
weirdly, and rub the inside of the tires. Not fixed yet, but the racing guys incorporate
a bit of toe in by welding or heating the front of the axle tubes, to make them
contract and bend, so no need to cut and weld, I think this could work for you.
I'll certainly do it, when I get my current project out of the way.
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Came to think of it: Check play in steering column. I had some play creeping in on my Pontiac, and it was awful to drive. The problem was solved when I fond that a u-joint was loose, and a nut was tightened.
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Thanks all, I will let you know.
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Thanks all, I will let you know.
Update - We did find that the 4 link was in a bind and the rear end wasn't square. It improved the steering greatly, but the steering is super sensitive. The front end guy said it was like a racing rack, real cllose ratio.
I found an article about power steering and rack and pinion. It said that with Mustang II type front end with rsck and pinion, the pressure of 1200 ps1 from a Saginaw pump was too much. It resulted in super sensitive steering. They recommended a 800 psi reduction valve foe the pump to correct the problem. I'm going to give it a try...
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OK guys problem solved. There was an alignment problem witth the rear 4 llink and we sorted that out, but steering was still too sensitive for me. I found an article about saginaw pumps and the pressure they have working well with rack and pinion. I found a kit, which amounted to washers and a clamp tool, that allowed me to reeduce the pressure and improve the steering greatly. Thank all...
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Good to know. 8)
I'd like to see this kit.
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Glad you got it sorted out. Anything they will allow you to enjoy the car more in a grid thing!
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Munch, glad you got it dialed in. Now cruise time😁
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I bought a used 1960 Corvette that had had a big block in it. I put a fuel injected 302 Engine in it and it ran fine ...until I drove it in the rain. It was all over the road. My friend with an alignment machine took a look at it and aligned the front end. Still drove bad in the rain. He checked the rear end housing and said it was toed out!! Pulled it back to specs and the car was like a new vehicle.
Just a thought.
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Good to know. 8)
I'd like to see this kit.
It is a Borgeson universal power steering pressure reduction kit. Also I found a Heidts PS -101 which I may switch to because of the adjustment.