Rusty Bowtie
General Category => General Discussion - Intros => Topic started by: Rattiac on January 18, 2017, 08:43:11 PM
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One day. I'd like to see if I can start the original engine to my 32.
This is not going to be a quick project. Mostly in my free free time (back burner) type of thing.
Its going to need a distributor or at least cap and plugs/ wires. Where can I get those ?
In the meantime it'll sit. What could I do to help thing's rotate one day.
Ive read that putting Marvels mystery oil down the cylinders could help.
Maybe put some oil in it. Check the dipstick.???
Drain/fill to check for shavings ????
Not sure I can put a breaker bar/socket on the lower pulley to break things loose. I think it's keyed (last time I checked).
Any recommendations ?
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I would start with putting at least motor oil in each cylinder ASAP if you plan on putting it off for a while..Mystery Oil would work but isn't it a bit thin? Then determine how the oil pump works on that engine for example if it turns via the distributor like a SBC then figure out a way to turn the oil pump with maybe an electric drill before you drop in a distributor.
That way you can let the cylinders soak, get it to turn over by hand and when ready - R&R the oil, prime it mechanically then install the distributor and fire it up.
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Just thinking - if you have a flywheel or flex plate (or modify one) you could use a pry bar on the flywheel ring gear to turn the engine. You're going to need one for the starter anyway.
May as well oil up the valves, rockers, springs before you start it.
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Ed suggested the same as I do. Come across this on e-bay for cap, points etc. Found this on plug #'s and Champion # D14. Looks like Chevy/Olds/Pont same? Wires, I would just get a universal 6 set and cut to size if needed.
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Wow. Thank you guys.
Guess im gonna have to learn about points soon and pick up those parts.
Man, is Tinindian still around ?
He helped me with the research on my car from AACCA. Great guy.
Im probably going to put off the steel conversion for a few more months so I can make it to the all Pontiac show. I've met a few guys that go to it. Cant miss it again.
One carshow I went to, a 31 Pontiac roadster was there with the same engine running perfect. He said he know someone who would want this drivetrain.
I'll try and dig up his pics.
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Think this through. You can do a lot of damage to a poorly put away old engine in a couple of revolutions. Rings will rust and stick to pistons and cylinders from condensation or moisture that got in through the intake or exhaust. Main and rod bearings can dry out and stick. If they are in an engine without full pressure turning the oil pump won't lube them. I have seen a lot of sound old engines fired up and used after sitting for many years. I've seen good engines seriously damaged after sitting for only a few months. Think: stuck valves, stuck rings, dry bearings, cylinders, cam, lifters, rockers. Wiring, timing, spark, carb, fuel can be worked through once the rest is free and lubed. Someday I'll fire the 1919 Essex 4 and the 413 inch Dodge flathead six. Meanwhile they are sitting with oil every where i can get it. Marvel Mystery oil is great for freeing stuck rings and valves.
I could not get a generator/power plant to turn over. It was loose but stopped hard and would no go past a certain point. I pulled the head and found one cylinder about 1/3 full of dark soil and dead ants. I guess the ants were getting in throigh an open valve and using the cylinder for storage. Just cleaned out the crap and put the head back on. That is the generator that we use now. :)
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Sixball, good point on the full oil pres. deal. That jogged my memory. I remember (old Chevy 6's) dad making sure the motor wasn't stuck(by rotating back and forth by hand) he would pour in Marval Mistory oil till it wouldn't take anymore(also pull plugs and in each cyl) and letting it set for a week or so. Then he would rotate the motor with the starter then drain all and then fresh oil plugs etc.
Oh and checking that all valve were't stuck by roatating and tapping on valve stem with a brass hammer :)
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Yeah, im gonna think this through alot. I probably won't get to it for awhile lots of other projects in the way. :o
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Don't let any of this scare you away from starting it. Make sure you take video if the event. There are lots of great videos on YouTube of startups. There may be tips there. My 1919 Essex is a total drip/splash oiling system. The oil pump just pumps oil above the crank so it can run down to the mains. The pump volume is adjustable by the driver! :o You have to oil the rockers through cups on the valve cover. The rest is splash from the rods slinging oil up inside the block into channels. As primitive as that sounds it worked very well and most of the racers kept this system. It does worry me about getting enough oil distributed before startup.
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While climbing my way to the corner of the shop. Here's a positive. The distributor is there. Tomorrow I'll fill the cylinders with oil.
Tried putting a flat crow bar on the lower pulley but didn't push very hard. Im lucky not to have any busted knuckles this week and didn't want to try.
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Although not a realy old engine. The 350 that I installed in that 31 model A awhile back was stuck, and I had to oil it up and then turn the oil pump with a drill to get some pressure. I then had to climb under the engne with a fly wheel turning tool and my leg pressure to get it to finally turn. I was able to save it and now it runs like a raped ape. They can be saved.
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Didn't realize it was a flathead but read somewhere that flatheads are known for having sticky valves to begin with. Might require positioning the engine so to allow oil to reach the valve guides before final startup etc??????
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Here is a start up of a 1920 Essex. It's a little different because this one got to the guy in pieces so it was cleaned and assembled. Still cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdCysmoPqck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdCysmoPqck) There are other startup videos here too.
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Didn't realize it was a flathead but read somewhere that flatheads are known for having sticky valves to begin with. Might require positioning the engine so to allow oil to reach the valve guides before final startup etc??????
Maybe since the one head is already loose. I should pull it off just to see.
This weekend I'll probably lube up what I can.
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I've a little experience here.
One of the best old school remedies, is 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone down the plug holes and let sit for awhile.
A mate who passed ten years back, once did a Model A banger, by submerging it in a drum full of old oil, and putting a fire under it.
He burned that drum for three days.
Afterwards, that old engine was free.
Also, as said, try using the pry bar on the flywheel.
Another tip, is once cylinders are full of oil mix, you can put pry bar on front or back, on 45 degree angle, and attach heavy weight to end of pry bar, and leave.
As the oil works through, the weight should start to push the bar downward, slowly freeing the engine. This is if only the cylinders are stuck, not so much the valves.
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I think it was on the HAMB, but I can't find it, a guy pulled the head on a stuck engine T and built a fire on top to get things hot enough to expand and break loose. Sounds crazy but it worked. There is a video and the engine was still in a car. He said it was a method used in the past. I'm guessing when Ts weren't worth anything. ;D